What's the difference

[Kal]

Sport is becoming more politicised (good or bad) seems the need to just forget and enjoy a couple of hours is in the past.

[HughieG]

Perhaps you’re right but it shouldn’t be. Just because someone is famous because they’re good at football, driving, singing, etc. doesn’t make their opinion any more relevant on political issues than your average person in the street.
Due to their enormous wealth, their views are perhaps even less relevant.

That’s not quite how I see it TT, but I think we both know that already 😊 Hope you’ll enjoy seeing the Brazilians battling it out against Mitrovic and co. tomorrow!

[toptoon]

That’s not quite how I see it TT, but I think we both know that already 😊 Hope you’ll enjoy seeing the Brazilians battling it out against Mitrovic and co. tomorrow!

Really? So you think Harry Kane’s opinion on LGBT is more relevant than yours because he’s good at football?
I’ll be watching the game …. in London!!!

[HughieG]

Really? So you think Harry Kane’s opinion on LGBT is more relevant than yours because he’s good at football?
I’ll be watching the game …. in London!!!

I think that the premise of your question is quite silly and far off what this debate is about, to be honest. Of course I don't think his opinion is more relevant than mine. His opinion is the same as mine, I think, and Harry Kane has got a much bigger platform than me to send out a message that is far more important than football. The Qatar state are trying to limit our freedom of expression which we use to support LGBT rights among other things and that's a disgrace.

[toptoon]

I see what you mean. If you read my first post again and your reply, you’ll see that I’m not being so silly!!
From your last sentence I see you don’t think that a government should be able to decide the rules in it’s own country. That opens a real can of worms.

I think everyone should free to be able to express themselves and choose their own preferences without hindrance or criticism from others. However, I don’t think these, or any other people, have the right to impose their own views on others.

[Cannylad]

Really? So you think Harry Kane’s opinion on LGBT is more relevant than yours because he’s good at football?
I’ll be watching the game …. in London!!!

That's exactly how I see it, so called celebrities lecturing us serfs on what is right or wrong.

[HughieG]

I see what you mean. If you read my first post again and your reply, you’ll see that I’m not being so silly!!

Agreed, you're a smart fellow and most of the the time you're not particularly silly

From your last sentence I see you don’t think that a government should be able to decide the rules in it’s own country. That opens a real can of worms.

I think everyone should free to be able to express themselves and choose their own preferences without hindrance or criticism from others. However, I don’t think these, or any other people, have the right to impose their own views on others.

I don't think the Western world have a divine right to moralise over other nations and states in every single aspect of how they run their country. However, the human rights have been defined for a reason, and if a country's laws and policies are breaching these, then are we not only entitled but also have a duty to make a big stink about it. I don't know what that has to do with imposing - we are not going to invade Qatar and change their laws for them. We are just making a lot of noise until they do. That's how changes are made, without going to war.

From your posts, and I might be wrong here so forgive me if that's the case, I get the idea that you seem to think that one cannot respect a country's culture, norms and rules and simultaneously protest and challenge parts of it, eg. LGBT+ rights and the working conditions of migrants (most of whom cannot defend themselves as they are dead). So what are your thoughts on how we can approach changing these stoneage views on ***ual norms etc.?

[toptoon]

You make some good points. To answer your question at the end there - change has to come from within (as, for example, is very visibly happening in Iran) and, will also be the only way to topple the nut job ruling Russia.
With internet, anyone can see what is happening in other countries around the world. Everyone knows what we think in the West and the people of each country will decide to follow our example, or not. (Many will not IMO).
I maintain though that we should not go to their countries and flaunt our views openly in the knowledge that their culture is traditionally against them - it’s inflammatory and disrespectful.

[HughieG]

You make some good points. To answer your question at the end there - change has to come from within (as, for example, is very visibly happening in Iran) and, will also be the only way to topple the nut job ruling Russia.
With internet, anyone can see what is happening in other countries around the world. Everyone knows what we think in the West and the people of each country will decide to follow our example, or not. (Many will not IMO).
I maintain though that we should not go to their countries and flaunt our views openly in the knowledge that their culture is traditionally against them - it’s inflammatory and disrespectful.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I'd add if change is to come from within then knowing that there is support and encouragement, politically too, from 'without' that is a massive motivation for change.

Congrats on Brazil yesterday - decent second goal from Richarlison. Normally can't stand him but he's turned into a brilliant player.

[toptoon]

I don’t much like Richarlison either but I’ll be supporting Brazil after (if?) England get knocked out.