1-0 to the railwaymen

[MikeSB]

Sorry, but you are wrong MSB. Dario was a coach at all levels of the club (but particularly at U14s ) as well 1st team manager. You can't change history to suit your argument. He also coached younger players at Chelsea.
I don't care about your ideas that there is some kind of genetic determinant (implicit in your denial of ability to learn from coaches) in playing football. As a former teacher, I believe that people can learn from others and that we are not all isolated individuals doing our own thing. You may react against this definition of your views but I repeat, it is implicit in your claims against coaching/learning.
By all means have an opinion (so don't flounce off again claiming people are trying to stop you having one!) but an opinion shouldn't simply be a rigid piece of dogma repeated ad nauseum with no qualification and respecting no fact that may force you to adjust it.
You have a right to an opinion but it is disrespectful to others when you close your ears.
I look forward to a reasoned response rather than a cut and paste post of recycled messages, tropes and over-generalisations.
To other readers: I apologise for losing patience but I've struggled hard, alongside others, to steer this site away from pure slanging matches to some kind of forum for reasoned discussion. Some will object to the tone of that previous sentence but I make no apologies for wanting to be involved in a troll-free environment where we can talk about the team we love/support.

I personally cannot understand your reasoning and closing ears when my posts are consistent and based on the history and common sense that nobody needs coaching to play football, head a ball, pass a ball or shoot or make a tackle, babies can do it. Self practise like Beckham was key...Alex Furguson would not have had a clue about HOW to strike the ball but he was a brilliant tactician. Nobody showed Bobby Charlton or George Best to play this game and how Frank Lord was able to score his many hat tricks here. What evidence do you need to convince you that academies are nothing and a waste of money. Even our manager tells us that academy players need to play at senior level to learn the best tactics and to stay fit. History is clear is that there were no academies what 30 years ago and England was one of the best footballing nations on earth. I played this game for quite a few years, did you? None of our managers told us HOW to play this game and just told us what position to play in and possibly some tactics and that was all. Npbody told First Division or any other division HOW to play this game. I did some teaching too and its NOTHING like football. If you are being taught academic subjects then you need others or teaching aids to lets say learn algebra or higher maths. That is not instinctive as is football. You are old enough to understand that surely. Dario may well have taught some youngsters as that was when youth teaching started but from my dim memory his team was made up of some very good Pro's and then eventually a few younger ones and that was the basis of his success and not the academy which came a lot later here in Crewe.

Please look at the evidence. Our academy costs well over one million pounds a year and we have one of the poorest team in the league last season and maybe this one and others too when we got relegated. Why? Isn't an academy designed to get players UP to league standard and above to get a million a year back? When was the last time we got a million transfer fee? 20 years ago? 20 million in fees and all gone and half a dozen years strugging in the Championship and then back down even with Dario in charge...Its the players natural ability that got them in the old days and still does. It really is nothing to do with academy training or coaching...Our performances last season and this is evidence. What MORE do you need? Don Revie spoiled this game with Leeds when he ruined the 5 forward line to stick one or two players up front...Its never gone back to HOW this game should be played when we can go 95 mins with one or two shots on goal....That is NOT my idea of football and never was. I used to score hat tricks from wing back positions....Ah the old days are gone for ever!

Every post here by others not convinced is the same old stuff with absolutely NO evidence academies work? Ask Germany just now!!

[MikeSB]

I'll just add one thing MSB, in your last post you admitted to Dario having an Assistant and called him great. We had more than one in the dugout even back then hey, (the exception being when Dario was up in his birdsnest in the stand roof). Happy days, on the field atleast.

Neil Baker was a great assistant and got Dean Ashton to put more work into his game and DA did...That was not coaching just telling the lazy sod to help out more...One million pounds to do that? . I don't remember any more than one manager and no assistants to speak off in the old days.....

Put a million ex players in academies and THEY will tell you they are definitely required. You can have all the coaching badges in the world and be hopeless as some of ours are and David Platt was...Its NOT coaching, its the ability of the players....God how many times do people need to be told the obvious?

[gazan]

Teaching is not about MEMORY. The 'Revie Plan' was developed while he was PLAYING for Man City so pre-dates your 'Jimmy Greaves golden era'.
I also think you need to know that just repeating something ad nauseum does not make an idea fact or evidence. Also lack of evidence is not the same as disagreeing with you.
Even your reply follows the same old pattern that something g is true merely because you assert it to be so.
Anyway, I'm stopping this there as I've been weak and assumed, once again, that you wanted a discussion but of course you don't. You just want a platform to repeat the same-old, same-old stuff about how it was so much better in your day and other comic book fantasy.
I'm open to any real, well-intentioned discussion but I've had enough of banging my head against your brick wall. I've always assumed the best of people but congrats, you've worn that out.

[jimmyboldon]

Teaching is not about MEMORY. The 'Revie Plan' was developed while he was PLAYING for Man City so pre-dates your 'Jimmy Greaves golden era'.
I also think you need to know that just repeating something ad nauseum does not make an idea fact or evidence. Also lack of evidence is not the same as disagreeing with you.
Even your reply follows the same old pattern that something g is true merely because you assert it to be so.
Anyway, I'm stopping this there as I've been weak and assumed, once again, that you wanted a discussion but of course you don't. You just want a platform to repeat the same-old, same-old stuff about how it was so much better in your day and other comic book fantasy.
I'm open to any real, well-intentioned discussion but I've had enough of banging my head against your brick wall. I've always assumed the best of people but congrats, you've worn that out.

I feel for you Gazan. You are the one who keeps this forum alive, starts new threads amd responds to others.
I don’t often agree with Wartman and Luckour, but at least it’s a discussion, and the subjects and contents change
As for Mike. Unfortunately he’s the reason I don’t contribute much these days. It’s not a discussion. The sheer length of his posts, usually with long sentences and few paragraphs often puts me off reading them. They are a non reader friendly slog.
I echo all Gazan says above.

[Timmy58]

I feel for you Gazan. You are the one who keeps this forum alive, starts new threads amd responds to others.
I don’t often agree with Wartman and Luckour, but at least it’s a discussion, and the subjects and contents change
As for Mike. Unfortunately he’s the reason I don’t contribute much these days. It’s not a discussion. The sheer length of his posts, usually with long sentences and few paragraphs often puts me off reading them. They are a non reader friendly slog.
I echo all Gazan says above.

I am pretty much with Gazan. I don't comment much on here mainly because I can't be arsed arguing the same point over an over again. Frankly, it is tedious when there is so much more to discuss. The Academy has been a constant supplier of cheap players for so long I have lost count. Whether it is sustainable in its present form I couldn't possibly say, But to suggest coaching kids (and adults) in sort is laughable. I play competitive sport (well, I try to) and in the 50 years I have been playing I have learned from people who have been able to see what I am doing wrong. And to suggest Sir Alex Ferguson was never coached is ludicrous.

Good luck to Lee Bell. We have had a poor 2 years where the team was destroyed through no fault of the then manager and given the need to balance the books probably no one else's fault either. There are clearly youngsters coming through and we have to wait for them to get to a level where they can thrive in our team.

Carry on Gazan

[MikeSB]

Teaching is not about MEMORY. The 'Revie Plan' was developed while he was PLAYING for Man City so pre-dates your 'Jimmy Greaves golden era'.
I also think you need to know that just repeating something ad nauseum does not make an idea fact or evidence. Also lack of evidence is not the same as disagreeing with you.
Even your reply follows the same old pattern that something g is true merely because you assert it to be so.
Anyway, I'm stopping this there as I've been weak and assumed, once again, that you wanted a discussion but of course you don't. You just want a platform to repeat the same-old, same-old stuff about how it was so much better in your day and other comic book fantasy.
I'm open to any real, well-intentioned discussion but I've had enough of banging my head against your brick wall. I've always assumed the best of people but congrats, you've worn that out.

This forum is dead and has been for a long time. The evidence for non academies is clear as none existed for over 100 years and we won the world cup without having ONE in this country. I state the evidence and why its repeatable over and over. The fact is that we started as a fourth division club and still are despite good and bad years as there has always been and clearly most posters here are wrong and I am right only because the evidence is clear..Gazan you have lost this argument and then ends up making personal critisim and that is why I stop posting on this miniscule site when tantamount bullying takes place. We are a bottom end fourth division club and is really no different to many National league sides. I would not dream of spending 24 quid on such poor quality football myself..Gazan keeps this forum alive as he is the ONLY guy posting here most days..)

Football was certainly better in the old days....Just MY opinion and entitled to say that as probably watched more games than most of you put together....Gazan did you ever PLAY this game in your twenties? BTW you said parents take their kids from here to Cat1 academies and I asked you how many and who they were and you didn't come back and so another made up story? FACTS are what demonstrated the evidence and that is clear as a Bell...

[MeForCrewe]

This forum is dead and has been for a long time. The evidence for non academies is clear as none existed for over 100 years and we won the world cup without having ONE in this country. I state the evidence and why its repeatable over and over. The fact is that we started as a fourth division club and still are despite good and bad years as there has always been and clearly most posters here are wrong and I am right only because the evidence is clear..Gazan you have lost this argument and then ends up making personal critisim and that is why I stop posting on this miniscule site when tantamount bullying takes place. We are a bottom end fourth division club and is really no different to many National league sides. I would not dream of spending 24 quid on such poor quality football myself..Gazan keeps this forum alive as he is the ONLY guy posting here most days..)

Football was certainly better in the old days....Just MY opinion and entitled to say that as probably watched more games than most of you put together....Gazan did you ever PLAY this game in your twenties? BTW you said parents take their kids from here to Cat1 academies and I asked you how many and who they were and you didn't come back and so another made up story? FACTS are what demonstrated the evidence and that is clear as a Bell...

Just my opinion, I doubt that you have watched more games than most of us put together on here.
I think that you missed your usual sentence off at the end,
" Anyway that's me finished on here."

[whosbrianwilson]

Couldn't agree more with what Gazan has said! Mike....please stick to your promise about "being finished on here"...do us all a favour mate.

[MikeSB]

Couldn't agree more with what Gazan has said! Mike....please stick to your promise about "being finished on here"...do us all a favour mate.

Haha...None of you OWN this board and I will post whatever I want to when I want to....Tip...nobody is FORCED....I mean COMPELLED to read anybody's post...

I am NOT going away! Its almost tantamount to bullying when posters are being told what to post and what not to post and personal remarks are made....Another tip! Get lost!

[gazan]

Oh dear!
Anyway lots of non- vitriol to talk about. I've started a theme on the formation of the team - much more interesting than personal rants. Please contribute to a football discussion.