Careless Tories!

[SithHappens]

What's doing a sith?

[Trickytreesreds]

Not my thread Tricky.

Sorry...‘this isn’t a Tory Party, it’s a Labour Party in fact’...is just bloody daft and spoken like someone who is totally delusional about virtually everything that has happened in recent times. This IS what the modern Conservative Party has become and there’s no running away from it.

‘Politics needs a major re think in this country’? I may very well agree, though possibly, given the current situation and the catastrophe that is Brexit this could be, to use a football analogy, when the crowd starts singing, ‘just because you’re losing’.

P.S. Sorry Swale...I did a Sith!

errrm no its not

Look at what they've spent and the tax levels. Then get back to me.
They may have ****ed it up and wasted it, but the policies have been right out of the Labour party pamphlets. You cant put a fag paper between them on that score.
So your gripes come down to individuals and personalities.

[Andy_Faber]

Mes amis, si nous étions censés faire la queue pourquoi avons-nous des coudes?

Absolutement

[ramAnag]

What's doing a sith?

Quoting Tricky!

[ramAnag]

errrm no its not

Look at what they've spent and the tax levels. Then get back to me.
They may have ****ed it up and wasted it, but the policies have been right out of the Labour party pamphlets. You cant put a fag paper between them on that score.
So your gripes come down to individuals and personalities.

Sorry Tricky, and this isn’t remotely personal, but you couldn’t be more wrong.

Labour invested in the NHS and the Education Service, when they came to power in 1997, as never before and, after 18 or so years of neglect, as a result of Thatcherite policies, we desperately needed it.

The evidence is still there as far as the NHS is concerned...just look locally at the changes made or committed to locally between 1997 and 2010. There’s been little of the sort since and we’re now back to square one in that respect.

As regards Education...I was unfortunate enough to spend 18 of my first 20 odd years of employment working under Thatcher and it was horribly underfunded in every way. When Blair, despite his later undeniable wrongdoings, came to power everything improved enormously.
I don’t recall taxes going up enormously to pay for things but either way - and you won’t like this - I don’t actually object to taxes rising providing the money is spent properly to benefit the people.

Imo having a decent Health Service, a proper Education Service, decent and appropriate provision for the old and weak and a properly funded and uncorrupt Police Force/Service are prerequisites of any civilised society. If it takes higher taxation to provide it then so be it...be open and up front about it...with just two provisos...that it is raised fairly and equitably...and spent wisely and not wastefully.

Perhaps my ‘gripes’ may come down to ‘individuals and personalities’, but they are the ‘individuals and personalities’ who currently dominate government and the Tory Party and that is the whole point.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I don't mind at all if taxes go up - good for business. Well, my business anyway...

[MadAmster]

At a time when the Toraidhe is raising taxes. Labour are saying they'd lower them.

Clearly the same...

[Trickytreesreds]

Sorry Tricky, and this isn’t remotely personal, but you couldn’t be more wrong.

Labour invested in the NHS and the Education Service, when they came to power in 1997, as never before and, after 18 or so years of neglect, as a result of Thatcherite policies, we desperately needed it.

The evidence is still there as far as the NHS is concerned...just look locally at the changes made or committed to locally between 1997 and 2010. There’s been little of the sort since and we’re now back to square one in that respect.

As regards Education...I was unfortunate enough to spend 18 of my first 20 odd years of employment working under Thatcher and it was horribly underfunded in every way. When Blair, despite his later undeniable wrongdoings, came to power everything improved enormously.
I don’t recall taxes going up enormously to pay for things but either way - and you won’t like this - I don’t actually object to taxes rising providing the money is spent properly to benefit the people.

Imo having a decent Health Service, a proper Education Service, decent and appropriate provision for the old and weak and a properly funded and uncorrupt Police Force/Service are prerequisites of any civilised society. If it takes higher taxation to provide it then so be it...be open and up front about it...with just two provisos...that it is raised fairly and equitably...and spent wisely and not wastefully.

Perhaps my ‘gripes’ may come down to ‘individuals and personalities’, but they are the ‘individuals and personalities’ who currently dominate government and the Tory Party and that is the whole point.

you seem to have missed the jist of what I am saying RA.

This current Tory party, is far removed from what you could call a Tory party.

Taxes are higher than they've been for 28 years. Forget where they have spent money, spend they have.
Since 2010, they have doubled the national debt.
Tories are supposed to be about growth and business. This lot are scared to embrce it.
They are scared to follow through the freedoms of Brexit. They are scared to control our borders and stop the money drain of leeches flooding in.

Everything they currently do, I would expect a Labour government to be bang in the middle of, as they have in the past.
So I'll say again, you won't get a fag paper between them on current actions.
they are NOT THE CONSERVATIVES OF OLD. They have wasted money all over the place. The individuals have been found out for corruption.
No one ever expects a Tory government to be this stupid. They are usually very regimental in their actions. Now I'm not defending that, but you always knew what to expect.

NB,
An uncorrupt police force? I remember mentioning this over a year ago, and you said you didn't believe the police were corrupt and where was my evidence? You have obviously changed your mind. Has something happened?


But like I said, I want the system ripped apart.
Politicians think that once they are in power, they can do what they want. That includes Labour as well as the Tories, your beloved Blair proved that.
They get away with murder, until the heat gets too much and it is their piers who force them out, in protection of their own positions.

[Trickytreesreds]

At a time when the Toraidhe is raising taxes. Labour are saying they'd lower them.

Clearly the same...

Garbage. He said he would cut taxes once the economy had "stabilsed". Errrrrrrrrrm it is safe to say that any government would do that.
Flip flop Starmer though, covers all his bases.
When Truss cut Taxes he was enraged and wanted more taxes.
You can't have it all ways.

But he is the opposition. They WILL AND DO say anything you want to hear.

So no, clearly the same indeed.

[ramAnag]

you seem to have missed the jist of what I am saying RA.

This current Tory party, is far removed from what you could call a Tory party.

Taxes are higher than they've been for 28 years. Forget where they have spent money, spend they have.
Since 2010, they have doubled the national debt.
Tories are supposed to be about growth and business. This lot are scared to embrce it.
They are scared to follow through the freedoms of Brexit. They are scared to control our borders and stop the money drain of leeches flooding in.

Everything they currently do, I would expect a Labour government to be bang in the middle of, as they have in the past.
So I'll say again, you won't get a fag paper between them on current actions.
they are NOT THE CONSERVATIVES OF OLD. They have wasted money all over the place. The individuals have been found out for corruption.
No one ever expects a Tory government to be this stupid. They are usually very regimental in their actions. Now I'm not defending that, but you always knew what to expect.

NB,
An uncorrupt police force? I remember mentioning this over a year ago, and you said you didn't believe the police were corrupt and where was my evidence? You have obviously changed your mind. Has something happened?


But like I said, I want the system ripped apart.
Politicians think that once they are in power, they can do what they want. That includes Labour as well as the Tories, your beloved Blair proved that.
They get away with murder, until the heat gets too much and it is their piers who force them out, in protection of their own positions.

Don’t think I’ve missed your ‘jist’, Tricky.

Point by point...everything we’re talking about revolves around the CURRENT Tory Party. That’s what matters...the Tory Party that has been in power for approaching 13 years and the same Tory Party that is responsible for the Brexit shambles. Whatever they once were has nothing to do with the UK in 2023.

Not sure how far you want to go back to your ‘CONSERVATIVES OF OLD’...Douglas-Home, Ted Heath, or maybe 1979 and the advent of Thatcherism? That too, as I remember, ended in tears too with Labour’s 1997 landslide victory followed by 13 years of Labour government.

You can try and disguise them however you like but today’s Conservatives are the Tory Party that we are concerned with in this thread.

To say Labour would embrace the same policies is just senseless. Were nurses, doctors, teachers, ambulance drivers etc (even bloody Ofsted this week!) on strike under Labour?

I don’t recall commenting on the police force before but you may be right and I’ll admit I’ve been shocked by some of, to me, the ‘recent’ revelations about the Met.

To be clear, ‘my beloved Blair’ isn’t actually fair. I fully accept that later in his career, when in cahoots with Bush, he was appallingly lacking in terms of integrity and dishonesty. In that respect he was deeply flawed, but what I also remember is that in 1997 he provided the light at the end of the Thatcherite ‘tunnel’. I cannot at any stage of my life time remember any other PM making such a positive difference than that brought about by that first Blair and Brown administration.