Careless Tories!

[ramAnag]

Not that you'd carry any petty allegiance bias into your analysis of course!!

But more to the point MPs in opposition don't quite get the opportunities to get their snouts in the trough than those in power do.

I'm sure both sides of the spectrum would equally get their snouts in were they all to have the same chance. But its easy when an opposition backbencher to claim the memorial high ground as noone wants to "buy you"

I’m not sure what my ‘petty allegiance’ is...or that I’ve provided any ‘analysis’...just a few observations about the last few years.

As regards the ‘opposition’...I take your point, but how you think the current opposition might go on to behave doesn’t really matter...it’s what’s happening at the moment - and for the last few years - that should concern us.

So, if I were to suggest to you that since the 2019 General Election there have been more examples of dishonest and disingenuous behaviour on behalf of our politicians...that the majority of that behaviour has been perpetrated by members of the Conservative Party...and that there have been more Government scandals during the same period than has been the case at any time during our lifetimes, would you disagree?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Petty was typo for party.

But let's open the batting today with Jared OMara (Lab/Ind) who today is facing 8 charges of fraud allegedly to support a coke habit. That nasty brown liquid sure plays havoc....

I'll keep an eye out for more going forward

Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing this behaviour, just suggesting that all politicians are the same. Sleazeballs the lot of them. But we get what we vote for. Destroying party political systems (and related backing, directors or union) might be a step in the right direction.

[ramAnag]

It’ll be a poor opening partnership if you open with O’Mara...he was suspended from the Labour Party six years ago.

Just answer the question...you’re only furthering the party political tit for tat by looking for equivalent wrongdoers and if O’Mara is the best you can do then I’d give up now.

Have we reached a new low in terms of political integrity since the last election? I really think we have, in fact Boris Johnson reminds me all too regularly, of another blond haired eccentric...Jimmy Savile...not because his crimes are the same...but because he too took in a majority of the British people from the 250k weekly letter writers to establishment figures from Margaret Thatcher to Princess Diana and the current King. Like Savile, Johnson is, imo, a con man and much of our current malaise stems from his dishonesty and immorality.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I don't care if he was suspended by labour, he's not Tory is my point. They all do it regardless of rosette colour. I'm only looking forwards so 1 in one day isn't bad.

But if we look back the whole Blair Irangate stands out like a beacon of sleaze. Go back to the 1910's and the liberal cabinet "invented" insider trading regarding Marconi.

Yes there's more of it now, but it's always been greater for the party in power. Which could explain why there is less historic sleaze - they haven't been in power much except under Blair (see above).

Another reason that there is more evident now I'll wager is the greater scrutiny MPs are under following the expenses scandal during Gordon Brown's tenure. It was probably just as prevalent all through the 20th century but the perps didn't get caught.

So no, we're on the same side of the fence regarding it's unacceptability but I'm not prepared to try to make a political issue of it. It's a phenomenon that reflects on the immoral state of those in public office whoever they chose to claim to represent. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely - and an 80 seat majority is fairly absolute.

[ramAnag]

I don't care if he was suspended by labour, he's not Tory is my point. They all do it regardless of rosette colour. I'm only looking forwards so 1 in one day isn't bad.

But if we look back the whole Blair Irangate stands out like a beacon of sleaze. Go back to the 1910's and the liberal cabinet "invented" insider trading regarding Marconi.

Yes there's more of it now, but it's always been greater for the party in power. Which could explain why there is less historic sleaze - they haven't been in power much except under Blair (see above).

Another reason that there is more evident now I'll wager is the greater scrutiny MPs are under following the expenses scandal during Gordon Brown's tenure. It was probably just as prevalent all through the 20th century but the perps didn't get caught.

So no, we're on the same side of the fence regarding it's unacceptability but I'm not prepared to try to make a political issue of it. It's a phenomenon that reflects on the immoral state of those in public office whoever they chose to claim to represent. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely - and an 80 seat majority is fairly absolute.

But the list of recent Tory transgressors seems endless and ever ongoing in comparison is my point.

Otherwise all fair points although I’m not certain ‘Irangate’ constitutes ‘sleaze’ and I suspect it’s a little unfair to blame Brown for the expenses wrongdoing by those who weren’t in his Party.

I think you’re right about the ‘greater scrutiny’ aspect and I’m glad you identify us as being on the ‘same side of the fence’ but I can’t agree about it not being a ‘political’ - as in Party - issue. Your lot, if that’s what they are, have been in power for approaching 13 years. There is no one left to blame for both the parlous state of the country and the fact that scandal after scandal has followed the Tories around like a bad smell for much of that time and, most especially, since Johnson became so influential. If those at the top are so ‘careless’ with their moral compass is it any wonder the ‘underlings’ just follow?

[swaledale]

Petty was typo for party.

But let's open the batting today with Jared OMara (Lab/Ind) who today is facing 8 charges of fraud allegedly to support a coke habit. That nasty brown liquid sure plays havoc....

I'll keep an eye out for more going forward

Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing this behaviour, just suggesting that all politicians are the same. Sleazeballs the lot of them. But we get what we vote for. Destroying party political systems (and related backing, directors or union) might be a step in the right direction.

I'd venture to suggest that O'Mara was not exactly a typical politician, seems to me he wasn't capable of the role in the first place which may say something about the selection process. Don't forget of course that Zahawi made a mistake in claiming for the heating of his horses stable (anther careless error)!.

To dismiss all politicians as "being the same" is I would say a very broad generalisation and I've met and had dealings with over a hundred in my life - many are actually hard working and dedicated to the role, but of course they never come up in the news, doing ones job properly is never newsworthy.

I would also say that dissing all politicians is a dangerous approach, for a start one needs to be certain what you would replace them with, a benign dictatorship sounds good, until its you thats in the firing line - there is indeed much that is imperfect with the current political system - the lack of involvement of the electorate being an obvious issue, rarely seen or heard unless they are directly affected and even then not willing to take any action, mostly accepting what happens and moaning - the French tend to be much more into direct action.

Yes looking at the way political parties are funded would be a start and banning the shady lobby groups posing as "think tanks" from any contact would be another. But on the whole politicians do reflect the society from which they are elected - it is certainly one of the Tory parties greatest achievements, to be able to be voted for by people whose interests they care little about, other than keeping the Tories in power.
By all means we should hold politicians and all those with power over others to account, as is well known, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Geoff Parkstone]

But the list of recent Tory transgressors seems endless and ever ongoing in comparison is my point.

Otherwise all fair points although I’m not certain ‘Irangate’ constitutes ‘sleaze’ and I suspect it’s a little unfair to blame Brown for the expenses wrongdoing by those who weren’t in his Party.

I think you’re right about the ‘greater scrutiny’ aspect and I’m glad you identify us as being on the ‘same side of the fence’ but I can’t agree about it not being a ‘political’ - as in Party - issue. Your lot, if that’s what they are, have been in power for approaching 13 years. There is no one left to blame for both the parlous state of the country and the fact that scandal after scandal has followed the Tories around like a bad smell for much of that time and, most especially, since Johnson became so influential. If those at the top are so ‘careless’ with their moral compass is it any wonder the ‘underlings’ just follow?

"My lot" as you put it, based on my voting habits at the last 3 GE's are green. I don't think Caroline Lucas has been sucked into any sleaze yet, although I accept that time will tell.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'd venture to suggest that O'Mara was not exactly a typical politician, seems to me he wasn't capable of the role in the first place which may say something about the selection process. Don't forget of course that Zahawi made a mistake in claiming for the heating of his horses stable (anther careless error)!.

To dismiss all politicians as "being the same" is I would say a very broad generalisation and I've met and had dealings with over a hundred in my life - many are actually hard working and dedicated to the role, but of course they never come up in the news, doing ones job properly is never newsworthy.

I would also say that dissing all politicians is a dangerous approach, for a start one needs to be certain what you would replace them with, a benign dictatorship sounds good, until its you thats in the firing line - there is indeed much that is imperfect with the current political system - the lack of involvement of the electorate being an obvious issue, rarely seen or heard unless they are directly affected and even then not willing to take any action, mostly accepting what happens and moaning - the French tend to be much more into direct action.

Yes looking at the way political parties are funded would be a start and banning the shady lobby groups posing as "think tanks" from any contact would be another. But on the whole politicians do reflect the society from which they are elected - it is certainly one of the Tory parties greatest achievements, to be able to be voted for by people whose interests they care little about, other than keeping the Tories in power.
By all means we should hold politicians and all those with power over others to account, as is well known, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

".....the lack of involvement of the electorate being an obvious issue, rarely seen or heard unless they are directly affected....."

So you are now a fan of referenda then? I recall the electorate were recently involved in a decision that you could not support and berated them as gammons and thick for referendumising the way they did. Can't recall what it was about, exit or something perhaps??

[ramAnag]

"My lot" as you put it, based on my voting habits at the last 3 GE's are green. I don't think Caroline Lucas has been sucked into any sleaze yet, although I accept that time will tell.

Again I stand corrected. Apologies...confused by how anyone with the sense and decency to vote Green can spend so much time if not actually ‘defending’ then at least excusing the indefensible.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"Again I stand correcte"

Twice in one day. The moon will turn blue later tonight over the Dales.😄😄😄