Russian Offensive Begins

[baggieal]

So it appears with so many bombs going off.

Just give the Ukrainians what they need to blow Putin and his henchmen out of the water! WW3 - well Putin won’t be content with Ukraine smashed to pieces!

Not our problem some say! Will anyone who says this really is deluded. For me innocents being executed and raped in Ukraine is no different than an old peoples home being bombed to bits in this country. Innocent people are innocent people against a mass murderer/s regardless.

[Omegstrat6]

Just been 're-watching some of the classic "World at war" series I have on dvd. The bit about the divisions in America over whether or not to get involved once the conflict had started and how how much-if any- support should be given to Britain certainly resonate today! There were a great many American "isolationists" who thought that the war in Europe had nothing to do with them and that Churchill would "fight until the last American" given the chance. Even some who thought the US should support Nazi Germany.

Roosevelt managed to get the lend-lease program through but had his work cut out trying to do much more. Luckily (for us) the Japanese then attacked Pearl Harbour and Hitler made the unwise decision to sign a pact with them. I would wager that few Americans would argue now that they were wrong to get involved though.

[Albionmad]

The World at War series was some of the finest television ever made. The opening sequence relating the horrific events at Ouradour sur Glane bring home how close the consequences of war are to each of us.
The portrayal of the Nazis rise to power is chilling as that could easily happen today given the people's dissatisfaction with those currently in office.

I've watched it a few times. My grandfather was at Gold Beach 1944.

[mickd1961]

Just been 're-watching some of the classic "World at war" series I have on dvd. The bit about the divisions in America over whether or not to get involved once the conflict had started and how how much-if any- support should be given to Britain certainly resonate today! There were a great many American "isolationists" who thought that the war in Europe had nothing to do with them and that Churchill would "fight until the last American" given the chance. Even some who thought the US should support Nazi Germany.

Roosevelt managed to get the lend-lease program through but had his work cut out trying to do much more. Luckily (for us) the Japanese then attacked Pearl Harbour and Hitler made the unwise decision to sign a pact with them. I would wager that few Americans would argue now that they were wrong to get involved though.

It was good of the Americans to get involved in The battle of Hastings and the Boar War though.......you can always count on the Yanks to be on the winning side.

[baggieal]

Just been 're-watching some of the classic "World at war" series I have on dvd. The bit about the divisions in America over whether or not to get involved once the conflict had started and how how much-if any- support should be given to Britain certainly resonate today! There were a great many American "isolationists" who thought that the war in Europe had nothing to do with them and that Churchill would "fight until the last American" given the chance. Even some who thought the US should support Nazi Germany.

Roosevelt managed to get the lend-lease program through but had his work cut out trying to do much more. Luckily (for us) the Japanese then attacked Pearl Harbour and Hitler made the unwise decision to sign a pact with them. I would wager that few Americans would argue now that they were wrong to get involved though.

Good post! I have business interests in the USA and travel there a lot. Even though many Americans are not that bright - they are bright enough to know it’s right to help Ukraine as it’s obvious Putin would not stop there given the chance.

Many Americans also feel the best defence is to attack and take Putin out. Remember when my lad was at school at 10 and there was a bully causing grief. To the dismay of my wife I told my lad to give him a good smack. The bully never came back and here lies the moral of the story!

Anyone who thinks we should do nothing or not get involved is deluded. A bomb dropped on innocent civilians is no different in Ukraine or London!

[Dubbag]

Anyone who thinks we should do nothing or not get involved is deluded. A bomb dropped on innocent civilians is no different in Ukraine or London!

For most people, they don't feel the connection to whats going on in Ukraine and how it effects them daily. One wonders how the first WW or 2sd WW got going at all with the disconnect that people feel today.
But the simple truth is people felt more connected to each other back in the early part of the last century then today with all the global communications today. People felt more connection with the land and each other then today.
And yet we are more connected. Oil gas and food are all connected intricately today more then ever.

[baggiematt]

For most people, they don't feel the connection to whats going on in Ukraine and how it effects them daily. One wonders how the first WW or 2sd WW got going at all with the disconnect that people feel today.
But the simple truth is people felt more connected to each other back in the early part of the last century then today with all the global communications today. People felt more connection with the land and each other then today.
And yet we are more connected. Oil gas and food are all connected intricately today more then ever.

Was our illegal war in Iraq anything to do with China/Japan/Brazil/India? Morally they must have found it wrong in the same way we do with Ukraine.

I get that we should be supporting Ukraine but they aren’t allies of our people like Ireland are, USA or others in Western Europe. I’ve never met a Ukrainian and will probably never meet one. We probably wouldn’t have shared values given that they are on the ‘other side’ of Europe.

Point being, we should provide weapons, cash and aid but we shouldn’t join this like others are suggesting.

Putin wants a legacy but he’s not thick. If he goes into NATO territory, it’s a war including nuclear weapons. That won’t happen. Not on a month of Sundays. His exhausted army won’t be able to go beyond Ukraine even if he was stupid enough to order it.

[Dubbag]

Was our illegal war in Iraq anything to do with China/Japan/Brazil/India? Morally they must have found it wrong in the same way we do with Ukraine.

I get that we should be supporting Ukraine but they aren’t allies of our people like Ireland are, USA or others in Western Europe. I’ve never met a Ukrainian and will probably never meet one. We probably wouldn’t have shared values given that they are on the ‘other side’ of Europe.

Point being, we should provide weapons, cash and aid but we shouldn’t join this like others are suggesting.

Putin wants a legacy but he’s not thick. If he goes into NATO territory, it’s a war including nuclear weapons. That won’t happen. Not on a month of Sundays. His exhausted army won’t be able to go beyond Ukraine even if he was stupid enough to order it.

The war in Iraq was by most modern say standards illegal.
China/Japan/Brazil/India? Morally they must have found it wrong in the same way we do with Ukraine.
Human rights standards while not great in any country certainly are pretty poor in three out of the four you mentioned. Think Japan is good with people in general nowadays. But the other three I would not take lessons from. They have a disregard for human life.
I have played football with many Ukrainians and know a few. They most certainly are not Russian. And they have known that as well. The other side of Europe is only a phone call away or a three hour journey away, thats how close this war is.

This war is different because it is nuclear in expansion. No time to blink. Also because the other dictators out there will grow confident if democracies don't stand up for freedom values and so forth. Russia is a failed state with nuclear weapons.

[baggiematt]

The war in Iraq was by most modern say standards illegal.
China/Japan/Brazil/India? Morally they must have found it wrong in the same way we do with Ukraine.
Human rights standards while not great in any country certainly are pretty poor in three out of the four you mentioned. Think Japan is good with people in general nowadays. But the other three I would not take lessons from. They have a disregard for human life.
I have played football with many Ukrainians and know a few. They most certainly are not Russian. And they have known that as well. The other side of Europe is only a phone call away or a three hour journey away, thats how close this war is.

This war is different because it is nuclear in expansion. No time to blink. Also because the other dictators out there will grow confident if democracies don't stand up for freedom values and so forth. Russia is a failed state with nuclear weapons.

I suppose best way to put my viewpoint, if you saw someone held at gunpoint you might call the police, help the victim when it's over or try to talk the gunman down but you probably wouldn't take the gunman on. But if it's a family member held at gunpoint you might be more inclined to be more reckless. Ukraine aren't that close to us.

[baggieal]

I suppose best way to put my viewpoint, if you saw someone held at gunpoint you might call the police, help the victim when it's over or try to talk the gunman down but you probably wouldn't take the gunman on. But if it's a family member held at gunpoint you might be more inclined to be more reckless. Ukraine aren't that close to us.

Bit like saying an innocent immigrant girl from Albania gets raped and murdered in London but some say - she’s not one of our own or Albania is not close to us!

An innocent Ukrainian who is tortured, raped and executed is no different to the same of any girl in this country.

Putin must be stopped otherwise it’s the green light for every other nutter in the world to do the same!