Can anyone say if

[BCram]

As I said the normal rate of IT which is set by Westminster and collected by HMRC is returned via the Barnett formula, the higher rate of tax the Scots tax is collected and returned by HMRC separately. Scotland doesn't have the power to collect taxes.

I am not making myself clear. The block grant is not equal to the total of taxes raised in Scotland. I accept that. I think if that is the case what happens to the difference? Maybe the difference is returned to us as individuals through pensions and the benefit system ie Working Tax Credit, Universal Credit and Child allowances?

[noahrab]

Islay, we can only assume, is a very weak form of words. My concern is about the truth of the initial question. Deeranged is quite clear that on this specific measure the amount of tax Sent to Westminster is greater than the block grant. If we could agree that then perhaps we could agree that Scotland and the Scots gets money from Westminster in the form of other payments, perhaps directly to us as individuals?

I’m sure he can back it up with data.

[noahrab]

I am not making myself clear. The block grant is not equal to the total of taxes raised in Scotland. I accept that. I think if that is the case what happens to the difference? Maybe the difference is returned to us as individuals through pensions and the benefit system ie Working Tax Credit, Universal Credit and Child allowances?

If we could wash our face as it were the SNP would be telling us every day.

[islaydarkblue]

I am not making myself clear. The block grant is not equal to the total of taxes raised in Scotland. I accept that. I think if that is the case what happens to the difference? Maybe the difference is returned to us as individuals through pensions and the benefit system ie Working Tax Credit, Universal Credit and Child allowances?

I enclose details of how the Scottish Income Tax is collected and the current rates of income tax in Scotland up to 5th April 2023. https://www.gov.scot/policies/taxes/income-tax/
I seem to remember reading that at the start of a separate Scottish Income Tax it was stated that if there was a shortfall in the amount collected compared to estimated amount to be collected the difference would be added to the block grant known as the Barnett Formula.
However if there was a surplus over the estimated amount to be collected the amount of the surplus would be deducted from the block grant.
I do not know if this is still happening or if the Scottish Government is having to stand on its own two feet and get their projected amount from Scottish Income Tax correct.

[islaydarkblue]

I enclose an article from the Scotsman newspaper dated 11th May 2021 which quotes the Gers figures for 2018-19. https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ormula-3233129
Back then £66 Billion was raised in taxes in Scotland whilst the Scottish Government received £81 Billion from Westminster.
This means that an extra £15 Billion was handed over by the U.K. Government to the Scottish Government than they received in taxes.
You can be sure that if it was the other way and Scotland was contributing more in taxes than the Scottish Government received from Westminster under the rules of the Barnett Formula Nicola Sturgeon and the rest of the SNP MSPs would be ramming it down our throats.
Prior to the 2014 independence referendum the SNP politicians keep telling us that everything would be wonderful as they would be able to pull all sorts of extra levers in an independent Scotland.
Since Nicola Sturgeon became the First Minister there has been no mention about pulling all these extra levers because she knows this means taxing people to the hilt and having massive public sector cutbacks to balance the books.

[BCram]

The Barnett formula is not the point of my question. Specifically is the amount of tax paid/raised in Scotland more than the block grant. It is, but my question is does money come back to us as individuals and how much?

[Deeranged]

I enclose an article from the Scotsman newspaper dated 11th May 2021 which quotes the Gers figures for 2018-19. https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ormula-3233129
Back then £66 Billion was raised in taxes in Scotland whilst the Scottish Government received £81 Billion from Westminster.
This means that an extra £15 Billion was handed over by the U.K. Government to the Scottish Government than they received in taxes.
You can be sure that if it was the other way and Scotland was contributing more in taxes than the Scottish Government received from Westminster under the rules of the Barnett Formula Nicola Sturgeon and the rest of the SNP MSPs would be ramming it down our throats.
Prior to the 2014 independence referendum the SNP politicians keep telling us that everything would be wonderful as they would be able to pull all sorts of extra levers in an independent Scotland.
Since Nicola Sturgeon became the First Minister there has been no mention about pulling all these extra levers because she knows this means taxing people to the hilt and having massive public sector cutbacks to balance the books.

Read the actual title of the article to get an idea of where the paper's alleigances lie (quote) '...Exactly how much money does Scotland contribute to England... ?'

That's right it asks how much Scotland contributes to jolly old England, not to the UK although in fairness this abbaration is corrected in the article text..

Then within the text we read (quote again)

'Does Scotland take more than its fair share of UK public spending'?

It is difficult to say whether Scotland gets an unfairly high proportion of UK public spending'.

It's 'difficult to say', In the year carefully choisen by Islay it seems Scotland might well have received more however Islay's made a bit of a boo boo because his 'research' is, as usual, half assed at best because the article also says

'In 2013, Professor Brian Ashcroft at the University of Strathclyde studied experimental figures from the Scottish Government and found that extra spending per capita on Scotland was almost exactly cancelled out by extra tax revenue between 1980/81 and 2011/2012'.

So in these years there's been a break even - but Islay does like to mention this one year when Scotland might, or might not, have been given more than it contributed by its English masters - don't you Islay?

[BCram]

Read the actual title of the article to get an idea of where the paper's alleigances lie (quote) '...Exactly how much money does Scotland contribute to England... ?'

That's right it asks how much Scotland contributes to jolly old England, not to the UK although in fairness this abbaration is corrected in the article text..

Then within the text we read (quote again)

'Does Scotland take more than its fair share of UK public spending'?

It is difficult to say whether Scotland gets an unfairly high proportion of UK public spending'.

It's 'difficult to say', In the year carefully choisen by Islay it seems Scotland might well have received more however Islay's made a bit of a boo boo because his 'research' is, as usual, half assed at best because the article also says

'In 2013, Professor Brian Ashcroft at the University of Strathclyde studied experimental figures from the Scottish Government and found that extra spending per capita on Scotland was almost exactly cancelled out by extra tax revenue between 1980/81 and 2011/2012'.

So in these years there's been a break even - but Islay does like to mention this one year when Scotland might, or might not, have been given more than it contributed by its English masters - don't you Islay?

Will it be the case that North Sea oil and gas revenues were much higher than they are today?

[Deeranged]

Will it be the case that North Sea oil and gas revenues were much higher than they are today?

100% not

And contrary to Westminster propaganda it aint running out any time soon.

[noahrab]

100% not

And contrary to Westminster propaganda it aint running out any time soon.

Oil is running out.