o/t covid farce

[Trickytreesreds]

So after the exposure of Hancocks texts and the COVID fiasco. Can we all agree that most of the COVID pandemic was a lie and blown out of all proportion?

This was obviously political and NOT SCIENCE BASED, maybe partygate and pubgate can be explained away by the way the rules were ignored?

Hancock at least needs holding to account here, maybe even charges?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmSpeou2ojY

[Andy_Faber]

So after the exposure of Hancocks texts and the COVID fiasco. Can we all agree that most of the COVID pandemic was a lie and blown out of all proportion?

This was obviously political and NOT SCIENCE BASED, maybe partygate and pubgate can be explained away by the way the rules were ignored?

Hancock at least needs holding to account here, maybe even charges?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmSpeou2ojY

I’ll beg to differ, mistakes made worldwide by politicians (mostly) and scientists (in good faith), it was definitely a thing and I just thank God the real pointy heads got a shift on with a vaccine or I think I’d be dead now.

What’s your point?

[swaledale]

You won't be surprised to hear me say absolutely not!

I note the usual suspects, are, with the benefit of hindsight and not having been in a position to have to manage the spread of a highly contagious virus, for which there was no vaccine. When the evidence from other countries including Italy for example was that health services were being overwhelmed and people were dying.

What the leaks do show, is actually not in support of an assertion that lockdown was unnecessary, certainly the first or second before the vaccine was available. They do show the discussion and dissent amongst government dealing with an unprecedented situation.

The balance of evidence shows that government-imposed restrictions that reduced people’s social contacts cut infection rates and saved lives. It also suggests that countries that acted more quickly to impose social restrictions did a better job of protecting the economy. Allowing the virus to spread uncontrolled would have incurred substantial economic costs and higher death rates.

The big issue here is that this government kicked the public enquiry on Covid into the long grass, other countries have already had there reviews published, and we are still waiting for it to report. That's too long, there were certainly things the government did wrong, which inlcude not locking down soon enough, not having clear policies on mitigating the harm closing schools did, why they opened pubs before schools after wards and that stupid "eat out to help out scheme".

But I'm not drawing flawed conclusions from a series of leaked whatsapp messages published in an anti lockdown paper which are being used by those ideologically opposed to lockdowns and which actually don't contain all the information necessary to make a independent judgement.

What is true, that vaccination means one generally can shrug off covid, so limiting exposure amongst the population prior to a vaccine being available did save lives and that even the one country Sweden that did have looser rules (although the main difference is that they werent mandatory), had a higher death rate than its Scandinavian neighbours, a population more cooperative over observing social distancing, yet admits it should have acted quicker to implement measures and closed restaurant's.

To say it was obviously political and not science based is erroneous! Obviously political decisions were made as politicians are elected to run the country! Not everything the scientists suggested was adopted, not all the modelling was a 100% accurate - models never are, they are an indication. One would expect there to be heated debate amongst them, thats a sign of good governance surely?

[ramAnag]

I’ll beg to differ, mistakes made worldwide by politicians (mostly) and scientists (in good faith), it was definitely a thing and I just thank God the real pointy heads got a shift on with a vaccine or I think I’d be dead now.

What’s your point?

Agree completely. Can someone please shut him up?

[Ramshank72]

Sorry to go Swaledale on you, but you talk some real crap sometimes, you'll be claiming the Holocaust was a hoax next.
(Sorry Swale, just tongue in cheek)

[SithHappens]

I think Tricky should be locked in a room with someone who lost a loved one to covid.

[MadAmster]

A general view from abroad not simply aimed at the UK.

When it first hit, there were expectations of it mirroring the "success" of the "Spanish flu" of 1918 to 1921. The precautions taken were right and justified. They worked. Not for everyone, the stats tell us that. Lockdown and social distancing saved lives. Then, based on Mrna research that had been going on for 2 decades, allied with an unprecedented action of Big Pharma companies sharing up to date data on their attempts to create a vaccine. That is why/how one was created so quickly. The trials showed a good % success rate and the odd side effect. Time constraints meant that the tests weren't over as long a period as one would wish nor did they cover as many volunteers as would happen normally. Governments and Big Pharma and the scientists looked at the data and decided releasing the vaccine was the right move. They also knew that, due to the short trials and small trial base, possible mid and long term side effects wouldn't show themselves for a while. Long term ones 5 or more years down the road. Some had the vaccine, some didn't. There were recriminations, the vaxed and the non-vaxed doing a lot of name calling at the other group. Not necessary, IMO. I can only go on my own personal journey for guidance and I have not slated people who chose not to get vaxxed. I did, eventually do the vax and, including boosters, I have now had 5. I knew I was taking a risk due to known short term side effects and to unknown possible future ones. I also knew that I'm on 8 meds a day and I spent a long time investigating, well, trying to at any rate, any possible mismatch between the vax and the meds I take. I couldn't find the info and was starting to err on the side of not having the vax. Eventually, I managed to get an appointment with my GP. We've known each other 30 years and he knows my chequered history with health measures, such as heart trouble, a totally misdiagnosed shoulder injury which troubles me to this day. Had the orthopaedic surgeon granted my request for an MRI when first asked rather than 5 months later (and then only to shut me up) I might have got away with 1, maybe 2, ops rather than 3 and might still have full use of the right arm/shoulder instead of the 70% I have today. He too, had done research and even he couldn't find stats on possible clashes between the vax and my medicine regime. The data was simply never looked at or collected. Why did I eventually decide there was less risk taking the vax than not doing so? He said that he couldn't tell me what to do but, considering my age and underlying medical situation, the ICUs were full of, mainly, people my age and older who weren't vaccinated. They weren't full of vaccinated people. I thought about that for a few days and had the jab, then the booster and, consistent to the end, the next 3 offered boosters. I'm still here to tell the tale.

Might I have survived without the vax? Possibly. The optimist that I am says, despite the underlying issues, I'm fit and strong and more than a match for any damned virus. The realist says my luck may not hold out forever. The realist won this particular argument. I'm glad he did. I'll never know what would have happened had the optimist won..... I'd like to think I'd still be here, alive and kicking..... ever the optimist

There are a fair few friends of mine who didn't take the vax. They are the ones more prone to mistrust government and take some conspiracy theories on board. They slated the vaxed online but in exchanges with me, understood my reasoning and didn't chide me for being a "sheep". I'm still alive, so are they. Who was right. As they are somewhat younger than I, it's quite likely we all took the right decision for ourselves.

As things progressed, I was, and still am, of the opinion that things could have reopened earlier than they did.

The conspeorists said the vax was a poison designed to kill us all off. I disagreed. Still do. They seemed to believe the US Doctor Tenpenny who stated that we would all die within 14 to 18 months of the 2nd jab. Billions of us are still here. They were wrong and I'm glad they were or I would have been dead 4 months ago at the latest.

Mid to long term side effects? Might they come or are they here already? The conspeorists point to excess deaths and to the number of young, fit people dying from myocarditis and other heart issues. There do appear to be excess deaths and young fit sporters do appear to be dying. They, of course, immediately blame the vax. They may be right. However, I'm no longer young but I am a reasonably fit sporter with heart issues, with high blood pressure and high cholesterol with 5 CV19 vaccinations and I'm still fit as a fiddle. My 85 year old mother in Law is fully vaxed, active and alive and kicking. Same goes for my 75 year old sister in Law. If the vax was going to take people out, we'd be top of the list. We're not. I'm not saying the vax ISN'T responsible for deaths and that this is merely the start of us seeing mid to long term side effects, neither am I saying it IS. It's just that there is no definitive proof either way. A sample group of 3 doesn't prove anything but, we're either very lucky or really hardy types or the vax works. Maybe all 3?

You will all have your own experience and some anecdotes. Some will agree with me. Some won't. The above is my experience and take on Covid. Nothing more. Nothing less.

... now, where's me tin hat?


Does anyone know when the Covid inquiry (not enquiry ) will be reporting?

[swaledale]

Sorry to go Swaledale on you, but you talk some real crap sometimes, you'll be claiming the Holocaust was a hoax next.
(Sorry Swale, just tongue in cheek)

No probs Ramshank I do have a sense of humour and not that thin skinned!

[macstheman]

Great post MA, goes through the similar experiences and concerns that I had.
I've had 4 doses having missed the 4th. Unfortunately, I picked up an infection from god knows where which turned to sepsis and I was in the Royal Derby for a week on a drip. After a slow recovery I opted to miss the booster as I was worried that it might be too much for my immune system. I've now had the 5th jab and will continue with any more offered all things being equal. In my case it seems that my heart/bp problems nor my original cancer treatment and subsequent further treatment for secondaries does not appear to have been impacted as far as covid is concerned. I will continue to have further jabs unless medical advice is contrary (despite what our revered Red might say!)

[MadAmster]

Great post MA, goes through the similar experiences and concerns that I had.
I've had 4 doses having missed the 4th. Unfortunately, I picked up an infection from god knows where which turned to sepsis and I was in the Royal Derby for a week on a drip. After a slow recovery I opted to miss the booster as I was worried that it might be too much for my immune system. I've now had the 5th jab and will continue with any more offered all things being equal. In my case it seems that my heart/bp problems nor my original cancer treatment and subsequent further treatment for secondaries does not appear to have been impacted as far as covid is concerned. I will continue to have further jabs unless medical advice is contrary (despite what our revered Red might say!)

Looks like they can't keep us Rams down Mac. On other platforms I've enraged a few by taking the middle road, refusing to accept "sheep" brickbats for eventually going for the vax from the antivaxxers and refusing to slate people who came to the opposite decision. Provided you understand the individual risks and use common sense to reach your verdict, I'll back you all the way.

Glad you're OK.

Over here, we shut the testing and vax stations last week. The government, currently, has no plans for mass vaccinations for any age groups and view, officially, CV19 as a flu like illness that isn't a danger to public health. The jury is still out on whether they will be providing annual jabs as happens with the flu jab.

As an aside, I had the flu shot, once, some 10 years ago. I was sick as a dog for 6 months. Caught a cold the day after the jab. That graduated through flu, bronchitis and then double pneumonia putting me flat on my back for 3 weeks. 6 months before I was properly fit again. December I had a mild bout of flu, tested neg for CV, my first flu in 10 years. I will continue my boycott of the flu vaccine and will review the situation as and when, if they ever come up with regular CV jabs.