Harrison and Ayling

[ozleeds]

It's very simple for me, we sold our 2 best players, whom also performed the most onsistently.

We then bulked the squad up with potential but no premiership experience.

Also and I am surprised its not been mentioned more frequently. There was only Harrison from the home nations that represented Leeds on the field against Liverpool. Is the teamlacking in experience of playing in the English leagues?

It's the way the world of football is fkin stupid. The local Greek team here plays with not one Greek player. My Greek team in Greece has 1 Greek playing the same in England and so on.

[WTF11]

It's the way the world of football is fkin stupid. The local Greek team here plays with not one Greek player. My Greek team in Greece has 1 Greek playing the same in England and so on.

Not so much about the nationality of any player (or group of players), or even the number of "foreign" players in the squad (although I've called out the lack of "home grown" players many times), its taking FTWs point about what experience do ANY of the players have playing in English leagues. I know LUFC aren't alone in being obsessed with trawling the lower leagues around the world in order to find "diamonds in the rough", we just seem to have been extraordinarily good at picking duds and too few exceptions (the likes of Gnonto being one such).

Problems that causes are obvious for us to see, especially when the trawling is done with the wrong net (metaphor there!), such as what nationality is the player, who has coached them, what club have they played for, what other players have they played alongside, none of which have the faintest to do with how good they are, or whether they will fit with a clubs on-field strategies.

We are where we are, nothing will change before seasons end, but should we be relegated then change will be forced on the club. If we survive changes must happen anyway, difference being it will depend on who makes them.

[Monaco_Totty]

I totally understand all this hype that PL is the 'home of football' but the PL today has teams expecting you to pay £40 for a match-ticket & 'tourist-fans happy to part with £250 for hospitality tickets with further large spends for goodies from club shops & new stadium designs reflect that fact sought after package.The PL want the big spenders not fans as a priority now & fast flowing attractive football is today the number one requirement we are told.
So, is it ?

Angus Kinnear (regarding ER development) quoting Spurs match day income is £5 million compared to our £1 million. So increasing capacity plus the number of corporate, hospitality & tourists at games is one of the main ways the 49ers will be keen to implement for those tempting juicy revenue streams if they splash that dollar-chunk on securing the club.

Regarding lack of Brits in PL teams - Ayling & Harrison's routes to PL tell a story.
I’m sorry to say this but this example really illustrated a fundamental problem with British footballers. Foreign kids & experienced pros are more than willing to give playing abroad a chance even though they have to move out of their 'comfort-zone' to go to a foreign country where they know possibly nothing with regard to language & in many cases the Uk dialect dilemmas. So any pro UK born player struggling for breaks needs to look at themselves opportunity wise.

Obviously player development at Leeds appears to be the issue before which countries they're coming from, surely.
At least non UK players are willing to try something new & attempt to develop themselves as players further even if it fails - which in many cases it does.

Maybe this idealist attraction of playing attractive fast flowing football has gone to far & reverting back to slower methodical football could be more attractive for the clubs with lesser budgets & thus attract more home grown talent of the likes of a Phillips.

Sure Leeds fans would be happy with that (if successful) but not sure that'll it be a corporate advertising pull for ticket-sales wise 'tho for greedy owners.
My parents have seen the Revie days style, myself the O'Leary years so not sure what actually is the Leeds Utd DNA style wise to build a new platform from ?

But if you don't try you'll never know, the saying goes.

[ozleeds]

tHE PROBLEM WITH HOME GROWN TALENT IS there is none.
Look at the under 21s at clubs there is a lot of foreign ones playing there.For the entertainment side of things the English leagues were the only ones past years which had a fast paced all action football if anything the game has gone backwards.
I know it wont happen as its all about money now and fickle fans accept it but money need to go down the ladder to schools and upwards to educate them football wise. The system now is play in pub teams low leagues eg Vardy hope someone spots you while they go out and spend millions on foreigners and we have seen what tripe of players you get by not looking far from home.

[WTF11]

tHE PROBLEM WITH HOME GROWN TALENT IS there is none.
Look at the under 21s at clubs there is a lot of foreign ones playing there.For the entertainment side of things the English leagues were the only ones past years which had a fast paced all action football if anything the game has gone backwards.
I know it wont happen as its all about money now and fickle fans accept it but money need to go down the ladder to schools and upwards to educate them football wise. The system now is play in pub teams low leagues eg Vardy hope someone spots you while they go out and spend millions on foreigners and we have seen what tripe of players you get by not looking far from home.

Not true (about home grown talent not being available)

All the players detailed in the links below are English born (whether they represent England at International level or not). They have been either in club academies, or progressed through lower league clubs until they got to where they are today. I got these links as first hits on 6 Google searches, just from knowing that they play for clubs and perform well. Kane is the obvious stand-out, but look at where he came from (SPURS!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Olise
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Toney
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Kane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Vardy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Ramsdale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Maddison

I could have found many, many more if I was to search for players who have done exactly the same, but aren't English by birth, all of whom play in the PL and/or Championship. Those and the players detailed above could have been looked at by LUFC (Ramsdale and Olise for instance were transferred to their current clubs only a couple of seasons ago (Olise for less than £10m!!!!, Ramsdale for £28m), but we prefer to trawl more distant shores and lower leagues.

You're absolutely right on the "money drives everything" but we could, and should be more intelligent and skilled in order to make the best of what funds we have. As for money trickling down, like you I'm not holding my breath. the days when Crawshaw Comprehensive or Pudsey Grammar or others would feed Farsley Celtic and they would feed LUFC are long gone, and hoping that the upper echelons of the Professional Leagues will sacrifice some of their ill-gotten gains is somewhat forlorn.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

We seem okay at identifying and signing young talent - bringing it through to the first team and nurturing it not so much.

Given how average (being polite) we have been for 12 months it is a little bewildering that

geldhardt
Cresswell
Perkins
Gyabi
Hjelde
Drameh

HVe had little or no game time during that period.

Gnonto has done well but Ted was pretty clear that he wasn’t ready for the first team until he had no choice but to play him due to injuries.

Other clubs such as City and Liverpool do seem much better at giving young players more regular minutes.

Would rather watch Joffy busting a gut than Bambi strolling around and Drameh. and Hjelde at full back then some of those who have played there.

Victor Orta speaks of our much vaunted young player set up but it al seems like words.

[ozleeds]

Not true (about home grown talent not being available)

All the players detailed in the links below are English born (whether they represent England at International level or not). They have been either in club academies, or progressed through lower league clubs until they got to where they are today. I got these links as first hits on 6 Google searches, just from knowing that they play for clubs and perform well. Kane is the obvious stand-out, but look at where he came from (SPURS!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Olise
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Toney
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Kane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Vardy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Ramsdale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Maddison

I could have found many, many more if I was to search for players who have done exactly the same, but aren't English by birth, all of whom play in the PL and/or Championship. Those and the players detailed above could have been looked at by LUFC (Ramsdale and Olise for instance were transferred to their current clubs only a couple of seasons ago (Olise for less than £10m!!!!, Ramsdale for £28m), but we prefer to trawl more distant shores and lower leagues.

You're absolutely right on the "money drives everything" but we could, and should be more intelligent and skilled in order to make the best of what funds we have. As for money trickling down, like you I'm not holding my breath. the days when Crawshaw Comprehensive or Pudsey Grammar or others would feed Farsley Celtic and they would feed LUFC are long gone, and hoping that the upper echelons of the Professional Leagues will sacrifice some of their ill-gotten gains is somewhat forlorn.

You realize some of the ones you linked is what I said about playing lower league and hoping someone picks them up? They are English players out there but where are they in the PL? I bet you will find 85% are foreigners. In Greece for instance the top league is like 90%. I don't call that development.
Money needs to be spend on local products.
In Australia I like 2 teams one is in lower league whom I supported since a kid and one in the top league which I supported since the new league was introduced. My Greek club in Greece and those 2 I do not follow or watch at all anymore because they are unrecognizable.
Only Team i follow is Leeds and get up all hours to watch and even than i say why bother but somehow I can't let them go lol

[ozleeds]

We seem okay at identifying and signing young talent - bringing it through to the first team and nurturing it not so much.

Given how average (being polite) we have been for 12 months it is a little bewildering that

geldhardt
Cresswell
Perkins
Gyabi
Hjelde
Drameh

HVe had little or no game time during that period.

Gnonto has done well but Ted was pretty clear that he wasn’t ready for the first team until he had no choice but to play him due to injuries.

Other clubs such as City and Liverpool do seem much better at giving young players more regular minutes.

Would rather watch Joffy busting a gut than Bambi strolling around and Drameh. and Hjelde at full back then some of those who have played there.

Victor Orta speaks of our much vaunted young player set up but it al seems like words.

Yep all the talent in the world and they somehow managed to destroy them. Only one player in Meslier playing and his going backwards.

[WTF11]

You realize some of the ones you linked is what I said about playing lower league and hoping someone picks them up? They are English players out there but where are they in the PL? I bet you will find 85% are foreigners. In Greece for instance the top league is like 90%. I don't call that development.
Money needs to be spend on local products.
In Australia I like 2 teams one is in lower league whom I supported since a kid and one in the top league which I supported since the new league was introduced. My Greek club in Greece and those 2 I do not follow or watch at all anymore because they are unrecognizable.
Only Team i follow is Leeds and get up all hours to watch and even than i say why bother but somehow I can't let them go lol

I think we're actually violently agreeing on this . All the players I identified and linked were born in the UK, and all have either been in an Academy structure for a significant time, or have progressed via playing in the lower leagues and being "spotted". I was using them as examples of what CAN happen, not that it always does.

We are as one when it comes to wanting money to be spent on more of the same and creating a more equitable structure where funds go to foster grass-roots talent, but realistically we're on a path that doesn't lead in that direction (and not just here, worldwide).

I'm with you on the vast majority of PL players being foreigners, but I was making the point that even so, a huge number have worked their way up either from their own domestic leagues or via lower league clubs here in the UK (Haarland didn't just spring into existence as a fully fledged super star, after all!). If the grass-roots funding question was addressed, then maybe, just maybe home-grown would be realistic, but as I say, I don't think it is, so the best we can do is make sure when we spend money (on anyone) we do so wisely. As a for instance, when we sign a loanee, we do so with playing and performance assessments as the gateway to any transfer, not what position we attain in the league, or whether we gain promotion, none of which is likely to have f00k all to do with the individual player (unless they were Haarland of course!).

Understand and agree with you regarding the way clubs have, in large part, lost their connection with the place they still regard as their home ground, and LUFC is rapidly following (if not already there). If the current malaise isn't corrected (whether we get relegated or not) and fans see a set of players who deserve the shirt, I suspect the list of those on the ST waiting list will shrink, a lot.