2023 Calmac Ferry Crisis

[islaydarkblue]

Do you think dabs are a long lost sub specious of human beings?

Please try to keep on this topic.

[Deeranged]

Please try to keep on this topic.

Oh, the irony

[Deeranged]

would you prefer that all the people employed, in Scotland, on the construction of the late ferries were unemployed and that the construction had gone to somewhere like Poland or Singapore?

Come on Islay, answer this question.

[BCram]

Another question - would you prefer that all the people employed, in Scotland, on the construction of the late ferries were unemployed and that the construction had gone to somewhere like Poland or Singapore?

A very good question. For me the answer is no I would not want a Polish built Ferry if I could get a Scottish built one to the same specification. I think any difference in price should be investigated thoroughly, almost line by line to see why there is a difference.
It could be in the price of steel and where it was sourced, it could be differences in energy costs, it could be different working practices and it could be differences in the capital equipment that has been invested, over years, in the ship yards.
The UK has been persuaded that manufacturing is not an appropriate economic activity and more 'intellectual ' jobs should be the way forward coupled with service sector, particularly financial service sector jobs.
I think that is fundamentally wrong. We need practical jobs to make wealth for everyone.
I think if the Poles had been running the Scottish Shipyard we would have had a very different outcome.
For me the blame lies in our political culture and its inability to persuade workers that they are valued whatever job they do. Somehow money seems to be the sole determinant of social worth.

[BCram]

Come on Islay, answer this question.

Sorry Deeranged. I was typing my thoughts while you were trying to get an answer from Islay. Surely he can't be using the Nelms school of communication?😇

[Deeranged]

Sorry Deeranged. I was typing my thoughts while you were trying to get an answer from Islay. Surely he can't be using the Nelms school of communication?��

And a very good answer it is.

I feel some of the reason we can't compete effectively in ship building and fabrication with Poland, Singapore etc. is to do with the unions (who I despise by the way) making unrealistic wage and condition demands and over egging the H&S. It's so easy now for any employee to just turn around and say 'no, I'm not working in the rain' or 'I have a bit of a cold so can't come in today' knowing they're untouchable and will likely still earn a full wage. So schedules go right and work doesn't get completed on time.

I was brought up to expect a fair day's wage for a fair day's work and I deliver for my employer on that basis. Other countries still work that way and their yards are much more competitive and just as importantly, reliable, than our yards are.

These ferries would likely have been completed by now if the order had gone overseas but then the people employed in this country would not have been working on them, our tax money would have gone to that country and not back into our economy.

It will have been a quandry for the SG at the time of award however there does seem to be more than one thing smelling slightly off over the entire process. I suspect a bit of an 'understanding' in over promising and under delivering up front for one thing.

[The AuldYin]

Come on Islay, answer this question.

No one whether dockyard worker or not should be guaranteed a pay packet. Why should the Scots government guarantee a shipbuilder work and not a house builder? Forcing the tax payer to buy work is a disgrace. If they can't compete against Poland or Singapore that's their ****ing problem not the taxpayers.

[Deeranged]

No one whether dockyard worker or not should be guaranteed a pay packet. Why should the Scots government guarantee a shipbuilder work and not a house builder? Forcing the tax payer to buy work is a disgrace. If they can't compete against Poland or Singapore that's their ****ing problem not the taxpayers.

To be fair, you can't really build a house overseas and live in it here in Scotland so not a good comparison.

I fully agree that nobody should be entitled to a wage but when that wage is likely to be fed straight back into the local economy is it not better for the SG that the Scottish economy benefits rather than the Polish or Singapore economy?

The SG tried using a yard in the middle east to fabricate wind turbines - they had to be shipped to Nigg for rework and the coating had to be repaired, literally couldn't get close to them because big chunks of the coating were falling off. Maybe they learned lessons from that?

[islaydarkblue]

Come on Islay, answer this question.

I received a tip off from a fellow patient in the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Paisley in September 2017 who told me that Jim McColl the owner of Ferguson’s Shipyard paid off skilled Scottish workers and replaced them with cheap labour from Eastern Europe.
This patient’s friend was a shop steward in Ferguson’s Shipyard. When Jim McColl was making a visit to his shipyard my fellow patient’s friend complained to McColl about him paying off skilled Scottish workers and replacing them with cheap labour from Eastern Europe.
The shop steward was paid off at the end of that week.

[Deeranged]

I received a tip off from a fellow patient in the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Paisley in September 2017 who told me that Jim McColl the owner of Ferguson’s Shipyard paid off skilled Scottish workers and replaced them with cheap labour from Eastern Europe.
This patient’s friend was a shop steward in Ferguson’s Shipyard. When Jim McColl was making a visit to his shipyard my fellow patient’s friend complained to McColl about him paying off skilled Scottish workers and replacing them with cheap labour from Eastern Europe.
The shop steward was paid off at the end of that week.

Happened across the country at the time. And don't discount the skills of the eastern European workers, they were every bit as skilled as the local workforce if not more skilled. Sadly your mate Boris forced through Brexit and many of them felt they had to return home leaving a massive skills shortage here in Scotland.