Post Mortem - Where it went wrong and what next?

[PT_Arab]

I think a post mortem is very difficult without explicit knowledge of everything that has gone on within the club over the last year or two, or even three. I don't think there is any doubt that the constant turnover of managers will not have helped. Why is it that managers don't want to stay at Tannadice? Something to do with the structure and hierarchy at the club maybe? Asghar has undoubtedly been a major factor in our demise on a number of levels. What I have heard more times than I would like, is that a certain senior player with Celtic leanings has far more say on first team matters than you might expect for a player.

He's among the large number I would like to see disappear over the horizon and never return. Really struggling to think of players from the current group whose services I would like to retain. Levitt possibly, although I assume he will be trying to engineer an exit. Not sure we can afford to keep paying a reported £6.5k a week in the Championship. McGrath is another I like the look of but I'm not sure we could have persuaded him to stay even if we had stayed up.

My problem with these players is knowing that they chucked it in order to get a manager sacked, not once, but twice in a single season. The run of results that it took to achieve that goal has contributed massively to our relegation. It's hard to say who the ringleaders were in this exercise (although I'm sure we can make some assumptions - see above), but as long as any of the current squad are still on our books, I will struggle to support them.

I think we need to get rid of our high earning "stars" and get some ordinary players in. By ordinary, I mean solid, competent players, who can get organised and actually play like they give a toss for the club. Players who don't think they're better than they are, but who want to be better than they are.

In terms of the manager, I'm fairly indifferent towards Goodwin. I don't dislike him - if we go with him then I'd accept that and give him his chance to build a squad and see how he gets on in the Championship. If we decide to go with someone else (or he decides he doesn't fancy it) then I won't lose any sleep over it.

I really wouldn't want to see Neilson back though. I think the majority of our support will remember all too well how quickly he was out the door as soon as someone whispered "Hearts" in his ear, despite the fact he had just guided us to promotion and Hearts were dropping down in the other direction. I think his card would be marked and it would only take a couple of bad results for people to be calling for his removal. Not to mention the weekly complaints about how boring his teams were to watch.

[Bannons boots]

I think a post mortem is very difficult without explicit knowledge of everything that has gone on within the club over the last year or two, or even three. I don't think there is any doubt that the constant turnover of managers will not have helped. Why is it that managers don't want to stay at Tannadice? Something to do with the structure and hierarchy at the club maybe? Asghar has undoubtedly been a major factor in our demise on a number of levels. What I have heard more times than I would like, is that a certain senior player with Celtic leanings has far more say on first team matters than you might expect for a player.

He's among the large number I would like to see disappear over the horizon and never return. Really struggling to think of players from the current group whose services I would like to retain. Levitt possibly, although I assume he will be trying to engineer an exit. Not sure we can afford to keep paying a reported £6.5k a week in the Championship. McGrath is another I like the look of but I'm not sure we could have persuaded him to stay even if we had stayed up.

My problem with these players is knowing that they chucked it in order to get a manager sacked, not once, but twice in a single season. The run of results that it took to achieve that goal has contributed massively to our relegation. It's hard to say who the ringleaders were in this exercise (although I'm sure we can make some assumptions - see above), but as long as any of the current squad are still on our books, I will struggle to support them.

I think we need to get rid of our high earning "stars" and get some ordinary players in. By ordinary, I mean solid, competent players, who can get organised and actually play like they give a toss for the club. Players who don't think they're better than they are, but who want to be better than they are.

In terms of the manager, I'm fairly indifferent towards Goodwin. I don't dislike him - if we go with him then I'd accept that and give him his chance to build a squad and see how he gets on in the Championship. If we decide to go with someone else (or he decides he doesn't fancy it) then I won't lose any sleep over it.

I really wouldn't want to see Neilson back though. I think the majority of our support will remember all too well how quickly he was out the door as soon as someone whispered "Hearts" in his ear, despite the fact he had just guided us to promotion and Hearts were dropping down in the other direction. I think his card would be marked and it would only take a couple of bad results for people to be calling for his removal. Not to mention the weekly complaints about how boring his teams were to watch.

Nail on head regarding the type of players needed. No more lightweights with no stomach for the battle that is scottish football. For too many years we have been a nothing club. No longer able to play teams off the park & not strong enough to outmuscle anyone. Time to wise up & accept we are what we are & get in players with heart & attitude. They could not do any worse than any of the charlatans that we are paying thousands to that have offered fk all for the whole season

[TerryTheTerror]

Nail on head regarding the type of players needed. No more lightweights with no stomach for the battle that is scottish football. For too many years we have been a nothing club. No longer able to play teams off the park & not strong enough to outmuscle anyone. Time to wise up & accept we are what we are & get in players with heart & attitude. They could not do any worse than any of the charlatans that we are paying thousands to that have offered fk all for the whole season

One of the two main problems we've had this season, no combative holding midfielders. The other being the keeper obviously. ☹️

[bannon_ftd_83]

Mcgrath can **** off with the rest of them. Absolute passenger and a waste of a jersey unless we have a penalty. Might be a good player in a decent team but in this team there was no point in playing him.

[An old shed boy]

Remember Roy Keane talking about motivation for players.
His comments were that a player shouldn’t need any manager or coach or anything else to motivate them.
Personal pride should be enough to make every player do their best in every game.
Obviously doesn’t apply to our squad.

[TerryTheTerror]

Mcgrath can **** off with the rest of them. Absolute passenger and a waste of a jersey unless we have a penalty. Might be a good player in a decent team but in this team there was no point in playing him.

He's not a player your can rely on in a situation like last night. ☹️

[TerryTheTerror]

Remember Roy Keane talking about motivation for players.
His comments were that a player shouldn’t need any manager or coach or anything else to motivate them.
Personal pride should be enough to make every player do their best in every game.
Obviously doesn’t apply to our squad.

The trouble is, not everyone is like Roy Keane, as he discovered in his failed management career.

[ianharab]

It’s quite simple , Ogren and Asghar shoulder most of the blame , piss poor recruitment left us with a threadbare unbalanced squad , said it before there is a difference signing players and signing what you need . Stevie Wonder could see we needed a goalie at least 1 midfielder a half decent wide man and striker , remember Fox saying we leave the January window stronger , **** me , that negligence in January meant the writing was on the wall , it’s no surprise what has happened

[An old shed boy]

The trouble is, not everyone is like Roy Keane, as he discovered in his failed management career.

Very true but we seem to be have been burdened with more than our share.
It’s not really asking too much for a player to give 100%.
I suppose some of them do but just not good enough.

[TerryTheTerror]

The point is, a good manager does what it takes to get the best out of individually players. It's far too simplistic to think every player will be motivated to do their best every week. Humans just aren't like that.

The best managers know this, Alex Ferguson being the obvious example.