Matchday Thread: Bolton v Derby

[ramAnag]

We have a new set of defensive personnel with "some" from last year retained, though some of those weren't regular performers i.e. Rooney.

How is it more important that our defensive record is worse than this time last year? Its irrelevant, unless your intent on your crusade to prove your assertion that Rosenior was better than Warne? Its a new season, different players, different team, different set up, it bears no relation to last year, all that matter is that we get enough pts to finish top 6 or above. Didn't The owls ahve a record pts total last year but still finish 3rd?

Yesterday we lost Rooney to injury, Cashin was left out due to unwelcome last minute attention by Brighton, 2 of the right wing backs brought in are missing through injury. Sonny Bradley who on paper should be a good defender is having a terrible run of form and is currently error prone, Wildsmith got sent off and their winning goal was a wicked deflection.

Yes we have shipped a few goals, but at least 4 of those can be put down to unusual errors/mistakes, it happens, especially in a team where the central defenders haven't played together much. I'm not sure there is any pattern as yet but your pessimism is duly noted.

You can make me out to be ‘concerned’, ‘pessimistic’ or on a ‘crusade’ if you think it helps. None of it’s true other than an element of ‘concern’ which I’d imagine most Derby fans share. The rest is in your head. All I’m wondering is whether our less effective defensive displays at this stage of the season are the result of the change in formation or personnel.

[MadAmster]

Have now seen the Nelson rugby tackle. That's anther penalty we should have had.
1. Handball not given. Referee error.
2. Penalty awarded before Wash scored so ref got that right
3. Their penalty was a free kick outside the box, not a penalty. Referee error.
4. Handball shout with their player on all fours. Not a penalty. Ref got it right
5. No handball by JW so no red card. Another referee error
6. Nelson bundled over, penalty not given. Another ref error

Those were the 6 big calls he had to make. He got 4 wrong. All to our detriment.

[Andy_Faber]

You can make me out to be ‘concerned’, ‘pessimistic’ or on a ‘crusade’ if you think it helps. None of it’s true other than an element of ‘concern’ which I’d imagine most Derby fans share. The rest is in your head. All I’m wondering is whether our less effective defensive displays at this stage of the season are the result of the change in formation or personnel.

It may be semantics but 'disappointed' and 'frustrated' fit my mood. This time last year I was overjoyed that firstly we had a club and secondly the team that had been thrown together had some sort of cohesion, reflected in some 'ok' displays and some 'ok' results. We also has a manager it was easy to like albeit his earnest communication hadn't been tested in much on-field adversity. I didn't especially like the ponderous method of building up attacks but that aside I was somewhere between satisfied and elated with our situation. The disappointment and frustration arises because currently the underlying displays (forgetting the results) are worse (IMO significantly worse) in terms of both team cohesion and individual performance than last year, and the manager doesn't seem to be as bothered about it as the typical Rams fan. My 'concern' medium/long term is that PW was recruited based on a CV built on him having 'struck lucky' with his two promotions. I recall (not on here, on fb) a number of rotherham fans alluding to the fact that he was a bit clueless in turning a losing record round, based on Rotherham's two relegations and now reinforced by Derby's late season nosedive. IMO the jury is still out on his ability to do the biz and I'll happily eat humble pie on his ability if things come good (although I doubt I'll ever warm to him)

[Andy_Faber]

Have now seen the Nelson rugby tackle. That's anther penalty we should have had.
1. Handball not given. Referee error.
2. Penalty awarded before Wash scored so ref got that right
3. Their penalty was a free kick outside the box, not a penalty. Referee error.
4. Handball shout with their player on all fours. Not a penalty. Ref got it right
5. No handball by JW so no red card. Another referee error
6. Nelson bundled over, penalty not given. Another ref error

Those were the 6 big calls he had to make. He got 4 wrong. All to our detriment.

I bow to your detective work and if the visuals are as you say, I agree. But in his defence, third division football deserves third division officiating

[MadAmster]

I bow to your detective work and if the visuals are as you say, I agree. But in his defence, third division football deserves third division officiating

I would say Burton and District League Division 5 deserves refs who understand the rules and apply them correctly. I did the KNVB refs course over here. Passed the written exam with 95%. Then there was a series of evening games in which all the candidate refs played and we all got to ref 15 minutes or so. We were then let loose but had a KNVB adjudicator at your first 3 games. Any errors were extensively covered at HT and FT. If you got a bad mark from a side you were again given an adjudicator for a game. There's no excuse for errors, especially on the big calls. For instance, for their penalty he was 4, maybe 5, yards away with a clear view. How he missed that the challenge was outside the box is a mystery.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"would say Burton and District League Division 5 deserves refs who understand the rules and apply them correctly"

If rA is to be believed well soon be playing at that level....

[ramAnag]

"would say Burton and District League Division 5 deserves refs who understand the rules and apply them correctly"

If rA is to be believed well soon be playing at that level....

Hmmm...and I’ve suggested anything remotely like that where exactly?

[swaledale]

Have now seen the Nelson rugby tackle. That's anther penalty we should have had.
1. Handball not given. Referee error.
2. Penalty awarded before Wash scored so ref got that right
3. Their penalty was a free kick outside the box, not a penalty. Referee error.
4. Handball shout with their player on all fours. Not a penalty. Ref got it right
5. No handball by JW so no red card. Another referee error
6. Nelson bundled over, penalty not given. Another ref error

Those were the 6 big calls he had to make. He got 4 wrong. All to our detriment.

I thought the Wildsmith sending off was a big call and it now seems he didn't handle the ball and the club are appealing against his sending off. Would we have lost with 11 on the field? Maybe, but it certainly swung the game in Bolton's favour.

[swaledale]

You can make me out to be ‘concerned’, ‘pessimistic’ or on a ‘crusade’ if you think it helps. None of it’s true other than an element of ‘concern’ which I’d imagine most Derby fans share. The rest is in your head. All I’m wondering is whether our less effective defensive displays at this stage of the season are the result of the change in formation or personnel.

its the way you phrase your concerns rA, which indicates its in your head rather than mine, I am after all only reading what you post. I mean nowhere in your hand wringing did you add context to Saturdays defeat, such as the unfortunate injury to Rooney, the reason why Cashin wasn't picked, Wildsmith's red card which I thought was wrong, though admittedly only from what I saw on the TV, but the club appealing seems to support that or the unfortunate deflection which gave them a winning goal.

Yes its frustrating, but am I concerned? No, but then maybe I have a more realistic expectation as to what may be achieved this season, having seen the likes of Ipswich and Sunderland struggle in League 1 without the financial issues Derby have had to contend with.

[swaledale]

It may be semantics but 'disappointed' and 'frustrated' fit my mood. This time last year I was overjoyed that firstly we had a club and secondly the team that had been thrown together had some sort of cohesion, reflected in some 'ok' displays and some 'ok' results. We also has a manager it was easy to like albeit his earnest communication hadn't been tested in much on-field adversity. I didn't especially like the ponderous method of building up attacks but that aside I was somewhere between satisfied and elated with our situation. The disappointment and frustration arises because currently the underlying displays (forgetting the results) are worse (IMO significantly worse) in terms of both team cohesion and individual performance than last year, and the manager doesn't seem to be as bothered about it as the typical Rams fan. My 'concern' medium/long term is that PW was recruited based on a CV built on him having 'struck lucky' with his two promotions. I recall (not on here, on fb) a number of rotherham fans alluding to the fact that he was a bit clueless in turning a losing record round, based on Rotherham's two relegations and now reinforced by Derby's late season nosedive. IMO the jury is still out on his ability to do the biz and I'll happily eat humble pie on his ability if things come good (although I doubt I'll ever warm to him)

Thats a reasonable judgement, though I'd say its stretching it a bit to say he struck lucky, with two promotions, one maybe, but getting out of this league isn't easy, but staying in the championship isn't either as much bigger clubs than Rotherham such as Sheff Wed have shown. On the face of it, his recruitment as a manager with experience of managing at this level and of getting promotion was sound, as against taking a gamble with a "rookie" manager. However, nothing is guaranteed in football and even the based laid plans can misfire, we shall see.

Personally I don't care if the manager/head coach has the personality of a slug, as long as he does the job he is employed to do. At the moment, its difficult to judge whether he can do that, but I'd say there were promising signs.

Its true the team hasn't yet shown its true potential, but given the changes and injuries thats not surprising.

However, given football fans are not renown for being realistic in their assessment of how their team is doing and have very short memories it is perhaps apposite to take a step back and gvie the guy time.