Suella Braverman.

[DaveP67 is back!]

Arab who lives in Israili educates thick student .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlPegRjl1XU

Sadly this is true of many who march and support Hamas.

[DaveP67 is back!]

https://www.metoo-unlessurajew.com/

Just read it and sign and share if you agree, if you don’t then I’m interested to know why?

[Lindenbaggie]

Reshuffle underway, she's first out the door.

She's out of the door because Sunak and his chums want to stay in the ECHR, and she wants out.

[kettering_baggie]

She's out of the door because Sunak and his chums want to stay in the ECHR, and she wants out.

If the government really does want the Rwanda scheme to get off the ground (along with the ‘planes) then we’ll probably have to leave the ECHR.

[Omegstrat6]

Tin hat time!😁😣
The Israel/Gaza conflict is such a complex situation but the problem will never stand the remotest chance of being resolved until people stop taking just partisan sides and refuse to even consider an opposing narrative. Is it really that difficult to try and see beyond the black/white rhetoric to the grey areas?

I am not denying that the current attacks on Gaza by Israel are entirely driven by the heinous attack by Hamas on themselves, nor do I support the actions of Hamas in any way. All I am saying, is that there is a bigger picture here and surely it is worth asking why Hamas and it's hateful ideology has been able to flourish in the first place.

There is surely no argument that Hamas is a terrorist organization, has committed atrocities against Israeli and is funded by a hateful Islamic extremist ideology. But -quite aside from the fact that Hamas does not represent all Palestinians -does that mean that Israel has never behaved badly towards the Palestinian population over many years? Do people really believe that Zionist expansionism (look at a map of Israel in 1948 and compare it with one now) all happened peacefully without discrimination and the forceful dispossession of Palestinian land and property?

I take the point of the video clip posted by Soulman, and I have no doubt that many "pro-Palestinians" are quite ignorant of some of the complexities of the situation. I can by no means claim to be an expert myself, but have at least taken the opportunity to try and learn more about what is happening and why. Amnesty International, for example, clearly see Israeli policies over the years as being nothing short of apartheid. Or is AI just full of left wing wokie liberals that can be happily ignored too alongside the UN, EHRC or WHO?

I don't doubt that there have been many instances -and are still- where Jews and Arabs have, and can, live happily side by side in Israel -but this is only part of the story. Currently, Israel has perhaps it's most right wing government in its history and they are talking openly of unleashing a "second Nakba" on Palestinians.

Always fragile agreements, the Oslo accords at least offered a brief period of hope but those days seem very far away now, mostly thanks to extremists on both sides. Not all Palestinians support Hamas and not all Israeli Jews support further Zionist expansionism but it will always be the innocent who just want to get on and live their lives in peace who will suffer.

[Omegstrat6]

Re the above, just to clarify, I do mean that I think both "sides" need to be more mindful in their pronouncements. For example, whilst I believe the Western governments are quite right to prescribe Hamas as terrorists and to defend Israel's right to defend itself (including retaliation against Hamas in Gaza ), I also believe that they are wrong to not publicly speak out against the deaths and suffering of so many innocent Palestinians that Israel's military operation is causing.

Similarly, I believe the UN is quite right to highlight the plight of these innocent victims but the online meetoo-unlessURaJew petition as posted by DaveP clearly shows that they failed to give enough public recognition of and condemnation to the atrocities committed by Hamas on 7th October. I know that we can all decide to come down in favour of one side of any argument than another but I just think that a degree of balance is also needed, especially in incendiary cases like this which has led to shameful examples of both anti-Semitic and Islamophobic behaviour.

[animallittle3]

@ Omegstrat6 .

There is no compromise unfortunately and the two state solution isn't going to happen because basically neither side wants it , it's as simple as that .

The history and both ideologies make this impossible , it's too deep and entrenched .

The only way this ends FOR NOW is when the Israelis say it ends which doesn't look good for Gaza .

People need to know the level of depravity , hate and I dare say enjoyment Hamas demonstrated when they murdered 1400 Jews on October 7th .

In their world there's only one way the Israelis can avenge that and at least try and prevent it happening again and that is to carry on doing what they are currently doing and more than likely a bit more on top for good measure too .

It's unfortunate , it's sad , it's tragic but it is what it is .

I understand from what I've watched over the weekend some people very hardened to witnessing conflict and atrocities were visibly shocked by the footage they've seen on October 7th .

[Omegstrat6]

@ Omegstrat6 .

There is no compromise unfortunately and the two state solution isn't going to happen because basically neither side wants it , it's as simple as that .

The history and both ideologies make this impossible , it's too deep and entrenched .

The only way this ends FOR NOW is when the Israelis say it ends which doesn't look good for Gaza .

People need to know the level of depravity , hate and I dare say enjoyment Hamas demonstrated when they murdered 1400 Jews on October 7th .

In their world there's only one way the Israelis can avenge that and at least try and prevent it happening again and that is to carry on doing what they are currently doing and more than likely a bit more on top for good measure too .

It's unfortunate , it's sad , it's tragic but it is what it is .

I understand from what I've watched over the weekend some people very hardened to witnessing conflict and atrocities were visibly shocked by the footage they've seen on October 7th .

Very sadly, the way things are at the moment I think you are right about the two state option, although ultimately this is probably the only way to resolve the situation.

Sad to think that under the Muslim Ottoman Empire the Jews felt far better off there than in Catholic Europe and many fled to Palestine even though the region was overwhelmingly Arab still. Ironically, at this time, they suffered far more at the hands of Christendom than the more tolerant Muslim empire.

It was the pogroms and anti-Semitism they suffered in Russia that initiated the whole Zionist movement in the late 1800s. Further pogroms in Russia during the revolution there and then more persecution in the late 1920s in Poland and Hungary led to the 3rd and 4th Aliyahs.

Whilst it was understandable that the Jews needed somewhere to settle and live in freedom away from the anti-Semitism that was rife in Europe, it was also understandable that the majority Arab population felt threatened by increasing numbers of Jewish immigrants to the area and angry that the British and other major powers were all for establishing a home for the Jewish population in Palestine but refused to consider majority rule come independence which would have then still been Arab.

The Holocaust swelled the number of Jewish immigrants further still so that by the end of WW2 the Jewish population in Palestine had risen to 33%. Keen to get out, and mindful of both its commitment to creating a Jewish homeland whilst keeping the Arab League onside because it needed their oil, Britain passed the problem to the UN in 1947. The UN too recommended the two state solution but the Arabs rejected it. Even had they accepted this back then, it is doubtful that Israel would not still have gone on to expand its territories illegally into Palestine such was the continuing influx of post war refugees from Europe and the Zionist "Law of Return".

The root cause of the initial problem, it seems to me, (and as you pointed out in your own earlier post) was the proliferation of anti-Semitism across most of Europe and Russia in the first half of the 20th Century which led to such huge numbers fleeing persecution to settle in Palestine. Can't blame the Jews for wanting to create a safe homeland but, on the other hand, Israel's continued illegal expansion can also be understandably read as a kind of colonization by the once majority Arab population.

Unfortunately, whilst more right wing Zionism is still very much alive and kicking in Israel the whole situation has been made infinitely worse by the rise of Islamic extremism and, as you say, neither side will back down. It's easy to side with Israel over all in this because they are literally fighting for their survival against a hateful ideology that would destroy them-but I personally just don't think that it should be forgotten that Israel's own actions have helped create this situation in the first place. If a solution is to be found surely it can only come through moderates replacing the Zionists in Israel and somehow over throwing Hamas in Gaza and encouraging a replacement moderate Palestinian rule there. The more innocent Palestinians die in Gaza, however, the harder this will be as hatred and resentment will build and only play into the hands of extremists.

The big concern at the moment -aside from the obvious one around innocent Palestinian casualties-is whether Israel can realistically reach its goal of destroying enough of Hamas to make it ineffective without getting Iran or Hezbollah fully involved and the international escalation that would inevitably lead to in the Middle East. Worrying and sad times.

[westcountryvillain]

Spot on Omegastrat - for me the narrative needs to move straight to a call for peace in Palestine, unfortunately some are too blinded by their own bigotry & hate to even contemplate talking to their enemies, but it has to happen to move forward.

Hamas are reported as having access to their own fuel, not allowing civilians to leave and willing to see them die to paint Israel as the aggressor. If Hamas has over 200 hostages how does Israel know the areas not to bomb, the only answer is they know where they are already? More human shields?

[Omegstrat6]

Spot on Omegastrat - for me the narrative needs to move straight to a call for peace in Palestine, unfortunately some are too blinded by their own bigotry & hate to even contemplate talking to their enemies, but it has to happen to move forward.

Hamas are reported as having access to their own fuel, not allowing civilians to leave and willing to see them die to paint Israel as the aggressor. If Hamas has over 200 hostages how does Israel know the areas not to bomb, the only answer is they know where they are already? More human shields?

Good point. They are called "hostages" but, to my knowledge, no ransom style "give us x and we'll release them" demands have been made so I can only assume that they are being used as human shields to protect the Hamas leadership or to use as bargaining chips in exchange for the leadership's own lives should the IDF get that close to them. Small wonder distraught relatives are angry at their government for not doing enough-but then how much, in reality, does Israeli intelligence know exactly about the hostages or their whereabouts?

Both Hamas and Israel will endeavour to put their own spin on things but whatever Hamas's end game in all this is, it certainly is not about protecting Palestinian lives in Gaza.