Matchday Thread: Rams v Crewe

[Andy_Faber]

Is that how it works though AF? I remember in the summer interviews with PW and DC outlining what happens. PW gives the recruitment team a description of the type of player he wants. He also gives them any names of such players he wants. Recruitment then goes off and sources possible incomings. Any fees and wages are sorted out by Pearce and the financial staff. PW can say no to a player.

No arguing with that as an explanation of the mechanics, but any professional who gave that as an answer to the quality of acquisitions would just be asked the question 'yes thanks for telling me how you've done it, now explain why it hasn't worked'

[MadAmster]

No arguing with that as an explanation of the mechanics, but any professional who gave that as an answer to the quality of acquisitions would just be asked the question 'yes thanks for telling me how you've done it, now explain why it hasn't worked'

I could have added more. My point being that PW is getting bad reviews on what folk perceive to be his recruitment process when only part of it is his both managerially and operationally. Once he's pointed recruitment, and via them, finance in both particular and generic directions, his only involvement is to use his "persuasive powers" on what he expects from the player and what the player can expect from him and the club. That will include no guaranteed start...

IMO, Warne gets slated, in regard to recruitment, to an extent that outweighs his influence in it. If players decide they can get more money elsewhere, it's unlikely they will have spoken to PW.

[swaledale]

The failure of Warne's (leading of the) recruitmant is to me demonstrated by the fact that of the 11 that turned out against Barnsley, he inherited 9, and the two that he recruited were marginally better than their predecessors (Nyambe) and no better (Nelson), IMO of course. So his other recruitments, in two transfer windows and 15 months of free agent opportunities, have been either not up to it and in reserve, not up to it and returned to their parent clubs, out injured due possibly to a predisposition to injury or genuine injuries. Not a great record

Without reopening a debate, he recruited defenders in Bradley, Elder, Nelson, Nyambe Wilson plus Ward who is WB/RM plus Vickers as a back up goal keeper, all of which we needed. Injuries have disrupted his team, but I certainly rate Nelson, Nyambe and Wilson have been as good as any player and we had nobody in those positions, so presumably your talking about Smith as a predecessor? Smith is better in midfield.

So of those not up to it Elder has been injured, Fornah hasn't featured much, John-Jules is injured. Ward has the quality but has been injured.

Collins goal record stands comparison with others in league 1, Washington questionable, Waghorn has been good.

If one is shopping in the bargain basement, not all players will be a success, but his record isn't that bad - yes one could query signing a player like Elder who had been injured and the same with the loans from Arsenal and Sunderland, but then in league 1, a quality loan is only going to be available with these caveats, i.e. they need some football to get back to match fitness after an injury layoff, or possibly aren't good enough for the league the parent club plays in - though often these will be sold for a transfer fee to a lower league club.

He has effectively had one transfer window, last January we were restricted to loans, as there are very few free transfers available then, unless one can persuade a club to let a player go early from his contract and the under that business plan the club couldn't pay a fee.

I think he explained it clearly in the summer, he has a tight budget, he wouldn't pay £300-500K for a player unless they were better than what he had, a proven goal scoring striker is rarely available on a free and is generally north of £500k minimum. Yes there was talk of May but ti seemed he wanted to go home to Charlton, not much one can do about that.

[swaledale]

I could have added more. My point being that PW is getting bad reviews on what folk perceive to be his recruitment process when only part of it is his both managerially and operationally. Once he's pointed recruitment, and via them, finance in both particular and generic directions, his only involvement is to use his "persuasive powers" on what he expects from the player and what the player can expect from him and the club. That will include no guaranteed start...

IMO, Warne gets slated, in regard to recruitment, to an extent that outweighs his influence in it. If players decide they can get more money elsewhere, it's unlikely they will have spoken to PW.

I'm sure Warne has his contacts, but in the end, it all depends upon whether the player requires a transfer fee and whether he can afford it on the budget, or if free, whether the player is willing to accept the wages offered.

I mean given the millions that Morris's various managers splurged on players many of whom didn't perform, I'd have to say Warne is doing pretty well for nil outlay!

[swaledale]

No arguing with that as an explanation of the mechanics, but any professional who gave that as an answer to the quality of acquisitions would just be asked the question 'yes thanks for telling me how you've done it, now explain why it hasn't worked'

Given we are 7th and only outside a play off position on paper can you explain what you mean by it hasn't worked?

[SithHappens]

I don't think we can judge if it's worked or not until the end of the season. Promotion was the aim and while it would be better to be top 2 we aren't exactly adrift.

In the last 2 promotion seasons we were further adrift at this time in the season.

[ramAnag]

Given we are 7th and only outside a play off position on paper can you explain what you mean by it hasn't worked?

Sith makes a fair point, and I have no wish to reignite our previous war of words, but to me, ‘it hasn’t worked’ refers to our poor performances and early exits from potentially money spinning cup competitions together with the fact that I can’t think of a single aspect of this year’s team which is an improvement on last year’s.
If I look at last season’s and, more importantly, this season’s squads then the players that really made/make a difference - Wildsmith, Cashin, Forsyth, Knight, Roberts, McGoldrick, Collins (yes I know but his gpg record isn’t that bad), Smith, Bird, NML, Sibley - were all here already. Yes, Wilson, Nelson and Nyambe are decent signings but it’s questionable that they’ve actually strengthened us and, as RS has pointed out, we’re still lacking a leader and even then the one we’ve got preceded Warne’s arrival and wasn’t captain last season.

[Andy_Faber]

Sith makes a fair point, and I have no wish to reignite our previous war of words, but to me, ‘it hasn’t worked’ refers to our poor performances and early exits from potentially money spinning cup competitions together with the fact that I can’t think of a single aspect of this year’s team which is an improvement on last year’s.
If I look at last season’s and, more importantly, this season’s squads then the players that really made/make a difference - Wildsmith, Cashin, Forsyth, Knight, Roberts, McGoldrick, Collins (yes I know but his gpg record isn’t that bad), Smith, Bird, NML, Sibley - were all here already. Yes, Wilson, Nelson and Nyambe are decent signings but it’s questionable that they’ve actually strengthened us and, as RS has pointed out, we’re still lacking a leader and even then the one we’ve got preceded Warne’s arrival and wasn’t captain last season.

I think you and I have been making these points and others for a few months, my 'its not worked' specifically refers to two areas - improvement in League position and the likelihood of watching a 90 minute masterclass or living nightmare.

Improvement in League position as at the current moment speaks for itself - PW has managed to achieve in fif**** months and two full transfer windows with known budgetary parameters almost exactly the same as Leroy Rosenior achieved in 10 games and a three week recruitment scramble/almost zero player starting point.

On a match by match basis I can only recall us being really poor against Lincoln under LR's custodianship, I can think of four, maybe five, clunkers under PW. So it could be argued that PW can't even motivate the same core squad to achieve the same consistency as last year, I will accept that logically if they came to us when their careers were on a downward trajectory, maybe whats happened is just a continuation of that trend. Some, Wildsmith for example, have been exceptions to that

The only thing I can think of that is better under PW is that we get it out of our half quicker, although most of the time the ball is 30 feet above the players' heads

NB I'm not in the Warne Out camp, simply because he and his team would be too expensive to ship on (and who better would want to come in), and I'll admit that part of my unrest with him is that I just don't like his (public) persona

[SithHappens]

I think Nyambe and Nelson are an improvement. People rave about Wilson but I'm not convinced yet.

Losing didzy was huge and we have clearly struggled to replace but not sure what else with our restrictions we could have done.

[ramAnag]

I forgot Korey Smith in my list of players inherited by Warne. Thought he did a good job at RB last season but accept that Nyambe is a more natural RB even though he may only have a handful of games left to play for us. Who knows?
As regards LB I think Roberts was a great loan signing and is a hard act to follow.
I do quite rate Nelson but I’m not sure that this season’s CB partnership is stronger than last season’s surprise package of Forsyth and Cashin.
Not exactly ‘raving’ about Wilson, Sith...but I do think he’s one of last summer’s better and more enthusiastic signings.