Everton shocker!

[Newish Pie]

You said no promotion and relegation that is incorrect but yes they did want guaranteed CL money each season but I guess the main ones wanted to make sure the state clubs were sorted out as nobody can be daft enough to think it would be ok or work.

You could argue it is a closed shop anyway amongst top 6 probably 7 now Newcastle are state owned.

Everton punishment is fair as they haven’t denied anything to my knowledge but the other two have denied it or refusing to cooperate which is same thing really.

Derby Luton Wigan all had points docked in last few years and others too and they had no comeback.

Where Everton have a point is two others have committed worse offences and nothing has been done (I understand they have more charges but still 115 charges and yet everyone is up Peps a*se they are cheating it is as simple as that)

I might have got the promotion/relegation slightly wrong. I think the idea was that the Snakes get to be permanent members, plus a small number of places for those who actually get there on sporting merit... if I remember rightly, they're not promoted, but are effectively guests and only get to continue if they do well enough in the domestic league. Granted, they'd get money for being involved, but nowhere near enough to fund the squad they'd need to be competitive across both competitions - just like we see with Europa League qualifiers.

And yes, we could argue that it's already a closed shop. But Leicester won the league. Brighton qualified for Europe. It's not quite a closed shop, and all the anger at the time showed that a Super League would be worse, and was something pretty much no-one wanted.

Other clubs have had points deductions, but for more serious offences like going into administration and failing to play players, and under standard rules set out by their respective leagues. The PL is just making stuff up as they go along. I don't really mind delays in Manchester City and Chelsea (and probably others) getting their hearings, because their cases are much more complicated than disagreements over accounting methodology, which is what this amounts to. Some punishment is fair, but this is completely disproportionate

[SmiffyPie]

Relegation would probably do them good. It's a risk of course, but there's plenty of examples of big clubs going down and coming back up stronger.

They won't get relegated with the three that were already down there being so poor.

[legs77]

I might have got the promotion/relegation slightly wrong. I think the idea was that the Snakes get to be permanent members, plus a small number of places for those who actually get there on sporting merit... if I remember rightly, they're not promoted, but are effectively guests and only get to continue if they do well enough in the domestic league. Granted, they'd get money for being involved, but nowhere near enough to fund the squad they'd need to be competitive across both competitions - just like we see with Europa League qualifiers.

And yes, we could argue that it's already a closed shop. But Leicester won the league. Brighton qualified for Europe. It's not quite a closed shop, and all the anger at the time showed that a Super League would be worse, and was something pretty much no-one wanted.

Other clubs have had points deductions, but for more serious offences like going into administration and failing to play players, and under standard rules set out by their respective leagues. The PL is just making stuff up as they go along. I don't really mind delays in Manchester City and Chelsea (and probably others) getting their hearings, because their cases are much more complicated than disagreements over accounting methodology, which is what this amounts to. Some punishment is fair, but this is completely disproportionate

I do agree the PL are making it up as they go along.

Being honest England should have any European places or be allowed in Euros/World Cups as there has been govt involvement ie Boris Johnson making sure Saudis were not blocked for a second time by Newcastle.

The ultimate cartel are the refs completely untouchable and they are making it up as they go along too if you see some of the decisions !!

Ours at Crewe was harsh but the get out is they see it only once which we have to agree with.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Thats good

No ! It's awful...!

[marky]

No ! It's awful...!

At last. A voice of reason, can you imagine Birmingham fans saying it's good Villa are doing well or Sheff Wed fans hoping Sheff Utd do well, course not, people saying it's good Forest are doing well simply sum up why Nottingham will never truly be classed as a football city.

[Notts78]

Relegation would probably do them good. It's a risk of course, but there's plenty of examples of big clubs going down and coming back up stronger.

Last time they were in tier 2 there was still only one British TV channel, no motorways and nobody had yet heard of Elvis Presley!

Not that I think Everton will go down.

There is also plenty of examples of decent clubs being relegated and not recovering. Given the turmoil in the boardroom and the money being paid for the new stadium, it’s imperative they stay in the Prem. Relegation would snowball IMO to something much worse.

[SwalePie]

Not that I think Everton will go down.

There is also plenty of examples of decent clubs being relegated and not recovering. Given the turmoil in the boardroom and the money being paid for the new stadium, it’s imperative they stay in the Prem. Relegation would snowball IMO to something much worse.

With the oldest professional club in the world and the oldest club in the Premier League we don't have to prove we are a football city, we're the home of professional football anyway!

[Newish Pie]

Not that I think Everton will go down.

There is also plenty of examples of decent clubs being relegated and not recovering. Given the turmoil in the boardroom and the money being paid for the new stadium, it’s imperative they stay in the Prem. Relegation would snowball IMO to something much worse.

Completely agree. These days what happens to teams relegated from the Prem is that they risk losing all their best players for a fraction of their value - partly because they don't want to drop a division, partly because they can't afford their wages OR they have relegation wage cuts built into their contract, in which chase they really don't want to drop a division. And then there's inevitably players on high salaries that other clubs won't match, and they're either stuck with them or need to subsidise their wages to move them on. There's also the effect on the non-playing staff, with a likely need for redundancy and restructuring.

It's a huge rebuilding job in a very short space of time... parachute payments help to a certain extent, but it creates a bit of ticking timebomb in financial terms once it runs out. And then, even if successful, these days a promotion winning team needs serious augmentation and improvement to be competitive for survival in the premier league. Clubs have been relegated and come back, but it's hard to think of many that have come back stronger quickly... I guess Villa are an example, but that's taken a number of seasons.

[magpie_mania]

At last. A voice of reason, can you imagine Birmingham fans saying it's good Villa are doing well or Sheff Wed fans hoping Sheff Utd do well, course not, people saying it's good Forest are doing well simply sum up why Nottingham will never truly be classed as a football city.

Not at all. I agree with Pedro.

If you want us to be a football city we need teams that are at the top.

[upthemaggies]

but it's hard to think of many that have come back stronger quickly... I guess Villa are an example, but that's taken a number of seasons.

Derby, Fword, Villa, Leeds, Blackburn and Leicester all won the league title a handful of seasons after coming back up. Newcastle's Keegan years only happened because they went down. Spurs success with Ardiles and Ricky Villa followed a season in tier 2. Chelsea and Man City had both spent time at a lower level before they scaled new heights. Liverpool's great era under Shankly began 2 years after coming back up in 62.

The only real horror story I can think of in regards to a top club would be Wolves in the 80s, but they really were a basket case.