The Season So Far.

[pass_and_move]

There are undoubtedly defensive frailties, but there are deficiencies elsewhere on the field. We dont retain the ball efficiently and hand over possession far too easily. At times our short passing is woeful, not up to the required standard of this division, never mind the division above. When the ball is pushed forward, we havent got the players to retain it.

All of this results in the ball coming back at us and putting our defenders under the cosh which exposes their weaknesses far more often than is necessary. This in turn probably highlights the frailties we have in that department.

We only have one way of playing and reverting to plan B hardly happens at all. We rely on the full backs pushing forward to give us any threat in the opposition half and when that doesnt work or the opposition start to exploit the inevitable spaces behind the full backs we havent got a clue what to do about it. Again this exposes our defenders.

I have to question the tactical acumen of the manager and coaches who keep repeating Plan A whether its working or not. Predictable substitutions virtually every game dont help, it doesnt pose new questions for the opposition to answer. Approaching half way in the season and we have a decent points haul and that is despite all of the above but I dont see the product improving week on week and Im still far from convinced that Collins knows who his best 11 are yet. When do we ever take to the field with a different approach that gives the impression that we have studied the opposition and adapted our approach to address their style and strengths? Would that be never? Who would be responsible for that? It leaves me questioning the manager and his flexibility and all of that despite the poor hand he has been dealt.

All in all I think their is collective responsibility for the product on the pitch and these weaknesses need to be addressed in January if we have any chance of pushing into the play off picture. The approach of the ownership is largely responsible for the seasonal reset of our playing and management staff and they need to show real intent in the next window. Otherwise sell up and let someone else have a go.

Interesting times ahead but I still retain forlorn hope that we will begin making adjustments and grow into the tasl this season.

Some good points made there Eths. The defensive frailties aren't just down to space being exploited or being under pressure, they're also down to the fact that some of these players are unable to simply make a clearance, use muscle to put opposition forwards off, hold a decent defensive line, refrain from rash tackling and stay on their feet more, offer a threat from our set pieces, defend set pieces properly, communicating with each other and lapses in concentration, leadership, anticipation, hesitation.

It's as poor as I've ever seen at the back and that's no exaggeration.

Yes the giving away of the ball is at times frustrating but while we're trying things you've got to expect it. Our passing at times is poor but other times it's very good and has opened teams up. The change in our style of play isn't necessarily going to be instantly successful, we have certain players who don't have the technical ability and we also have lazy buggaz like Styles and Russell who think putting in half a shift is acceptable. Now we have Luca back in the holding role and edging towards match fitness, I expect the passing to improve and the holes to be plugged when the full backs push on.

The purpose of playing passing football is a long term thing as I pointed out. If that's the blueprint then it's something that we need to build up over time to see it come to fruition a couple of seasons down the line and hopefully flourish. Ipswich are the opposite example to the one that I used with Sheffield Wednesday where they have built and play a style of football that can move up a division comfortably and that's what we should aspire to. The quality of the recruitment needs to improve for that to happen

[SBRed48]

I can relate to a lot of those thoughts Pass.

Our absence from the Cup will hit home for me tomorrow afternoon when the draw for the Third Round takes place without our ball number had we beaten Sutton (not guaranteed by any means)
(Draw 12-55pm ITV during build up to Eastleigh-v-Reading game) I shall look out for Sutton or Horsham (Ball 63)

On Monday evening Parekh and JAQ will bathe the Fans Forum audience in eagerly-swallowed warm words after the joking warm up bloke has done his stuff. The audience will respond with wise nodding heads and polite applause and then gather to blow warm smoke up arses agreeing everything is now "good".

The circus moves on.

[EthelRed]

Agree with your points Pass, the lack of quality is there to be seen.

What Im asking myself is this, Duff and Ismael found a way of getting the best out of the players available and both developed a style that suited those resources.

Im not seeing any sign of that with the current incumbents. The playing personnel are not at the standard of previous seasons but I think theres a way of speeding up the progress. That starts with deciding who your starters are giving the players continuity and a chance to form partnerships and understandings with each other. However im not confident they have the talent to make the progression required, especially the central defenders. Were swapping and changing the full backs and strikers for no apparent reason, neither tactical nor for performance reasons.


As for those who arent putting it in, and I agree with you with what ive seen, put them on the bench or drop them completely. The club is finding life tough enough without 'billy big balls' attitudes on the pitch.

[Young_Nudger]

Ethel - some good points made.
An early post regarding holding the ball up - which of course is the target striker discussion that we have had on here several times.
Morris and Dike were good at pressing - but they were also excellent at holding the ball up and bringing others into player.
Cosgrove has to start if we intend to move the ball quicker going forward.

As for your comment ……… Duff and Ismael found a way of getting the best out of the players available and both developed a style that suited those resources.

I think you have nearly answered your own question there.
They didn’t develop ‘A’ style - they developed ‘THE’ style.
That is to say the style the club had already got and has been moulded on.
Collins hasn’t done that.
He’s tried to introduce his own crab possession type of football - and it’s fallen flat on its face.

We are now getting comments on social media and the message boards about how boring the backwards and sideways football is.
We didn’t get those types of comments under Ismael and Duff - as those two HCs stepped straight into the role that the club had already formulated.

Collins hasn’t done this - but IMO the style is slowly moving towards how Duff played eg the players seem to be more eager to look forward for a pass now compared to what they did a few weeks ago. There has been fewer sideways and backwards passes in recent games.
Things seem to be changing slowly.
So I think there may have been some pressure behind the scenes.

[SBRed48]

I think you have nearly answered your own question there.
They didn’t develop ‘A’ style - they developed ‘THE’ style.
.

Nope, I am still struggling with this concept of the Barnsley Style.

I recall the play under the eight managers in the six years since the takeover and still have trouble seeing the continuity

Morais to Stendel to Struber to Ismael to Schopp to Asbaghi to Duff to Collins...and the next one.

All very different.

[pass_and_move]

Nope, I am still struggling with this concept of the Barnsley Style.

I recall the play under the eight managers in the six years since the takeover and still have trouble seeing the continuity

Morais to Stendel to Struber to Ismael to Schopp to Asbaghi to Duff to Collins...and the next one.

All very different.

I think Nudger ought to change his 'Barnsley way' to the 'Ismael way' but the unique style implemented by Val has never been replicated by either his successors or predecessors.

The Barnsley way as i know it was always to play good football on the deck. In my time as a supporter since the late 80s, we've had very few who've deviated from playing passing football. Simon Daveys style wasn't what you'd call aesthetically pleasing, neither was the Icelandic coach Gudjon Thordarssons. Dave Bassett played quite direct, so too Steve Parkin but the vast majority provided us with decent passing football. In Danny Wilson and Eric Winstanleys case, exceptional passing football.

Direct football can be effective but the style of each promoted Barnsley team since the 90s, their success has been achieved playing into feet. Obviously Wilsons wonders being the best in my time. Andy Ritchie and Rick Holdens team played good football, Heckys team played some really good stuff too. Stendels style was efficient, a good mixture of ball into feet and sometimes more direct play.


Ismael may have given us our highest finish in the Championship in 20 years but I couldn't watch that garbage week in week out. At the time I was consumed by the results and the unorthodox style taking it to the bigger teams but as the season drew to a close, the games became almost intolerable to watch as the opposition started to match up our style and the games became a slugfest. There was never any future playing like that.

Give me good passing football any day of the week. I'll enjoy watching Man City play Spurs later today. I can't understand people who say Pep Guardiolas style is boring. City are one of the most entertaining and best passing teams of all time. The Brazilians in 1970 were an unbelievable team. Spanish team in 2010 were up there. The Liverpool team under Dalglish in the late 80s were exhilarating to watch. Arsenal's invincibles, the Cruyff Dutch team. Proper entertaining football. No matter who tha supports, thaz got to enjoy the spectacle provided by the aforementioned teams


Obviously Barnsley could never get anywhere near that kind of quality but as a purist myself, I'd like to see us trying to pass the ball. That's the entertainment value of professional football surely.

As thaz pointed art numerous times SB over the years, this high press is nowt new, it is billed by some as being new and innovative but high press is just jargon that is marketed and manifests itself into modern football society. It's always existed and nobody is reinventing the wheel here.

[Shadrack the Red]

I think Nudger ought to change his 'Barnsley way' to the 'Ismael way' but the unique style implemented by Val has never been replicated by either his successors or predecessors.

The Barnsley way as i know it was always to play good football on the deck. In my time as a supporter since the late 80s, we've had very few who've deviated from playing passing football. Simon Daveys style wasn't what you'd call aesthetically pleasing, neither was the Icelandic coach Gudjon Thordarssons. Dave Bassett played quite direct, so too Steve Parkin but the vast majority provided us with decent passing football. In Danny Wilson and Eric Winstanleys case, exceptional passing football.

Direct football can be effective but the style of each promoted Barnsley team since the 90s, their success has been achieved playing into feet. Obviously Wilsons wonders being the best in my time. Andy Ritchie and Rick Holdens team played good football, Heckys team played some really good stuff too. Stendels style was efficient, a good mixture of ball into feet and sometimes more direct play.


Ismael may have given us our highest finish in the Championship in 20 years but I couldn't watch that garbage week in week out. At the time I was consumed by the results and the unorthodox style taking it to the bigger teams but as the season drew to a close, the games became almost intolerable to watch as the opposition started to match up our style and the games became a slugfest. There was never any future playing like that.

Give me good passing football any day of the week. I'll enjoy watching Man City play Spurs later today. I can't understand people who say Pep Guardiolas style is boring. City are one of the most entertaining and best passing teams of all time. The Brazilians in 1970 were an unbelievable team. Spanish team in 2010 were up there. The Liverpool team under Dalglish in the late 80s were exhilarating to watch. Arsenal's invincibles, the Cruyff Dutch team. Proper entertaining football. No matter who tha supports, thaz got to enjoy the spectacle provided by the aforementioned teams


Obviously Barnsley could never get anywhere near that kind of quality but as a purist myself, I'd like to see us trying to pass the ball. That's the entertainment value of professional football surely.

As thaz pointed art numerous times SB over the years, this high press is nowt new, it is billed by some as being new and innovative but high press is just jargon that is marketed and manifests itself into modern football society. It's always existed and nobody is reinventing the wheel here.

Enjoyable read Pass, we do not agree on everything but we all have our own opinions , I personally do not think there is such a thing as " The Barns;ey way " , the object of the game is to score more goals than the oppositon & to do this you have to get up the pitch , how you get there determines the supposed football you are trying to play , we differ on a couple of points , I personally get bored stiff with the so called total football way , it is fine when Man City & Arsenal do it because the accurate passing is coupled with flair , skill & pace but when lesser teams try to copy it bores me senseless , for example watching Swansea against us in the play off matches was painful & I have watched Southampton a couple of times this season continually back & across back and across , rinse & repeat while the opposition just sit back in shape & wait until they eventually cross the half way line & then proceed to defend & counter , it is awful whilst I personally enjoyed Vals style as I thought we actually did play some decent stuff where it mattered in the final third but if I am being honest I think at our level where the skill & ability level is third class I think a mixture of playing the ball long when required & the passing game in the opponents half is a blend that suits me, I do not like defenders with limited ability trying to play out of the back , row Z for me or get it up the pitch & then take it from there , this tapping it about at the back is a recipe for disaster & frankly I hate it but as I said earlier it is about opinions , somewhere a cross between Wilson 1997 & Val would suit me but at the end of the day a manger is judged on results & that requires " the winning way " .

[animallittle3]

Enjoyable read Pass, we do not agree on everything but we all have our own opinions , I personally do not think there is such a thing as " The Barns;ey way " , the object of the game is to score more goals than the oppositon & to do this you have to get up the pitch , how you get there determines the supposed football you are trying to play , we differ on a couple of points , I personally get bored stiff with the so called total football way , it is fine when Man City & Arsenal do it because the accurate passing is coupled with flair , skill & pace but when lesser teams try to copy it bores me senseless , for example watching Swansea against us in the play off matches was painful & I have watched Southampton a couple of times this season continually back & across back and across , rinse & repeat while the opposition just sit back in shape & wait until they eventually cross the half way line & then proceed to defend & counter , it is awful whilst I personally enjoyed Vals style as I thought we actually did play some decent stuff where it mattered in the final third but if I am being honest I think at our level where the skill & ability level is third class I think a mixture of playing the ball long when required & the passing game in the opponents half is a blend that suits me, I do not like defenders with limited ability trying to play out of the back , row Z for me or get it up the pitch & then take it from there , this tapping it about at the back is a recipe for disaster & frankly I hate it but as I said earlier it is about opinions , somewhere a cross between Wilson 1997 & Val would suit me but at the end of the day a manger is judged on results & that requires " the winning way " .

I saw Burnley yesterday afternoon completely destroy the Blunts with a superb exhibition of longer ball and short and quick passing .

The Burnley manager despite his long career at City doesn't nail his colours to any mast .

[Young_Nudger]

Let’s see if anything is said at the supporters meeting regarding the Barnsley way of playing.
That’s of course if someone asks the right questions about it.
I find it incredibly that some supporters think the club is just bobbling along aimlessly and the head coaches just play the style of football they want - they probably still think we are playing a flat back 4 and have 2 wingers to support the front two strikers.

[animallittle3]

Let’s see if anything is said at the supporters meeting regarding the Barnsley way of playing.
That’s of course if someone asks the right questions about it.
I find it incredibly that some supporters think the club is just bobbling along aimlessly and the head coaches just play the style of football they want - they probably still think we are playing a flat back 4 and have 2 wingers to support the front two strikers.

You've just surpassed yourself YN with another one of your posts that you tend not to spend too much time thinking through .

You've just perfectly described the way Stendel played , the first HC we recruited to play with a high press .