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There seems to be a lot of embracing going on in the penalty area most games, especially when there is a free kick or corner.Originally Posted by SinceSept1959
Some also appear to have been watching too much of that American game that they call football with all the "tactical" blocks. I was brought up to believe that was obstruction but no matter, the game has obviously changed.
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What was wrong in the first place was the introduction of HD TV coverage from every angle giving home viewers a clear picture of what actually happened and what the referee missed. Then you get the '66 "goal or no goal" (ok, goal line tech would have sorted that) and that infamous Hand of God which millions around the world, except the referee, saw.
Give the VAR officials 30s to arrive at a different decision to the ref or play on if VAR is to be kept.
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No debate on VAR for me.
Just bin it.
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True. In the relatively few cases where VAR decisions turn out to be wrong, that's the problem. VAR certainly hasn't made refereeing 100% infallible and nobody ever claimed it would. What it HAS done, without question, is considerably increase the number of correct decisions, but inevitably, the focus of the media (who still want something to talk about after all) will always be on the remaining errors.
The whole debate really needs to move on, because VAR isn't going anywhere. Wheels don't get uninvented. Football is now a multi-billion pound business and the days when it was okay to say "the bad decisions will even themselves out over a season" have long gone. It's not an amateur game with jumpers for goalposts anymore. The focus should (and will) be on how to improve VAR further, so even fewer mistakes are made in the future, and that really boils down to improving the standard of the officials interpreting it.
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Oh I think you'll find that it is HATED in rugby.
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So, going back to my original post, does this mean you agree with matches being replayed when a VAR mistake is identified? With fewer people taking up refereeing because of abuse and violence at grass roots level, the standard of refereeing ain't going to improve any time soon.
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No, once a mistake is made it's made and the result should stand, whether VAR is involved or not. The purpose of VAR is to reduce the number of times a mistake stands uncorrected in-game, which it has done, but correct decisions aren't 'news' for the pundits and media so they will still focus on the (albeit far fewer) number of errors, not least because the VAR 'debate' itself fills in time.
I agree with you about the standard of refereeing, so in that sense it might be a long time before we get officials good enough to take VAR interpretation to another level, but that's where the focus of attention should be, because the genie isn't going back in the bottle. Quite the opposite. We live in a world where the use of technology is only going to increase. And I'm not saying that to be provocative and wind up those who don't like VAR, I'm just stating the obvious really. I'm actually mildly technophobic myself, but I'm not the future.
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The trouble is that VAR is a nice little earner for someone, so if brown envelopes go to the decision makers we know what happens ! World Cups in Qatar for starters !
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I'm not quite so sure that the standard of refereeing is that bad overall, especially at the top level now we've got a lot more full time professionals, training programmes etc. We probably have the fittest, best trained referees ever.
The problem we have is a number of laws of the game where the practical meanings just aren't clear. Sometimes this is because the interpretations make no sense, sometimes it's because the laws (or their interpretations) have changed and a lot of fans haven't caught up yet.
In particular, the handball law is a mess. Old Pie mentioned grappling and pulling and shirt tugging in the area... I seem to remember a short period of time when penalties were given for this. I don't see a great deal of consistency as regards yellow cards, and especially second yellows. And then with VAR we can't seem to decide whether we're re-refereeing or looking for clear and obvious errors. Into this 'corridor of uncertainty' come the confusions and odd decisions which... tend to favour the Big Sky Teams. Probably not because of brown envelopes, but more likely because they get less grief that way.
Then... SinceSept1959 touched on this earlier... there's the pundits and commentators, who give some players and some teams license to break or bend the rules that they deny to others. So... some teams and players (and you can guess which ones) are employing good game management while others are time-wasting cheats robbing the paying public. Some players are "entitled to go down" because there was "contact" whereas others are divers, or "needed to be stronger there, for me". Some might think they don't matter, but they set the tone of discussions, and a lot of football fans are aware of their own bias and value their more objective views. Only... not so much.
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The point is that TV /Studio based officials on VAR , still get decisions wrong despite viewing numerous angles.
Therefore not necessary , not fit for purpose and
introduced for whose benefit ?
Save for simulation, violent conduct ,serious foul play and debatable penalties , no benefit because all offences would need referral !
Only introduced for clear and obvious errors they said.!
The continuing implementation of interpretations has made referees like policemen. Rule overloads so they enforce certain aspects of The Laws of the game rather than all of them !
Wilfull obstructing an opponent and the 6 seconds rule for example. When did you last see an indirect free kick awarded ?
I remember a conversation with Ray Lewis before a game v Blackpool after his error cost Notts an FA Cup win v Spurs. Upon me reminding him of that game he said " I'd better study the Laws then before the KO "
I replied " Law 12 Fouls and Misconduct and Law 18 Common Sense." Obviously made a point because he booked 7 Blackpool players and sent one off !
I have to disagree that professional referees are any better , fitter or better trained. As Warnock always says a book trained referee doesn't understand the game, if you've ain't played you don't look for the same things !
When I did my induction , 50 yrs back it was apparent from comments and interpretations, who had played
A current PL official was fast tracked from junior level.
He never played the game and he still doesn't know the game when on VAR duties.
Positioning ideas these day's , don't give the referee's the best viewing positions and if your position is 40 yds away you are guessing some decisions, especially when your assistants don't actually assist !
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