Centenary celebrations but will it be Tony Stewart's last?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

No actually he left us in best position we've been in championship for decades, and without that start we would have surely been relegated last season.
But that doesn't fit in with your hatred of Warne does it ?

We were in a decent league position when he left us, whether or not he would have maintained that position is debatable.

What he did definitely do though was to leave taking his crew with him, which ripped the heart out of the running of the club, a poison pill we have yet to recover from

But that doesn’t fit in with your puppy love adoration of Warne does it?

[Brin]

The thing is he told TS what was happening, the offer he’d had and it was left in the hands of TS.

The day when he told him was a few days before it was made public.
Could TS have convinced him to stay?

I don't think he could have. Warne to his credit worked absolute miracles with the budget he was given. Okay we went down twice but both times he brought us back up, some say one luckily that was down to covid, however, we were second at the time so deserved it.

Knowing how much a daunting task what lied ahead come the next season, he wisely and correctly walked away where the restraints were not to be as bad. I for one do not bare any malice towards Warne and like countless other managers throughout all the leagues, he took his backroom staff with him which was to be expected. Those that didn't expect him to do that........

[mellowmiller]

We were in a decent league position when he left us, whether or not he would have maintained that position is debatable.

What he did definitely do though was to leave taking his crew with him, which ripped the heart out of the running of the club, a poison pill we have yet to recover from

But that doesn’t fit in with your puppy love adoration of Warne does it?

PW didn't kidnap them, they chose to go with him.
TS knew in advance that was going to happen and everything since then has been a masterclass in how not to do things.
Fail to plan.......etc.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

PW didn't kidnap them, they chose to go with him.
TS knew in advance that was going to happen and everything since then has been a masterclass in how not to do things.
Fail to plan.......etc.

Poison pill

[UlleyMiller]

Warne's departure was badly timed, hurt the club, and prevented people seeing if genuine progress had been made on the pitch.

However...

Very few managers leave clubs and kick-start the sort of spiral we've had. Granted, the promising start he made last term might have derailed just as much, but there weren't many signs of that. So IMHO the logic is that Warne's presence was a good sticking plaster for the lack of progression being made in other areas of the club, MT was devastatingly bad, or PW was an elite manager, overachieving with what he had.

Nothing against him, but the latter doesn't feel right. And although I didn't think MT was up to Championship football, at the very least he was aided by people still at the club. The noise about training facilities, the obvious lack of serious benefit from the academy, continuing reliance on loanees, and the age demographics of our squad tell me all I need to know.

This obviously isn't the doom and gloom scenario of Torquay etc, but it looks increasingly obvious we're not going to be bouncing up again... and even if we did, it's back to square one because we won't have done it with a longer term plan.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

Warne's departure was badly timed, hurt the club, and prevented people seeing if genuine progress had been made on the pitch.

However...

Very few managers leave clubs and kick-start the sort of spiral we've had. Granted, the promising start he made last term might have derailed just as much, but there weren't many signs of that. So IMHO the logic is that Warne's presence was a good sticking plaster for the lack of progression being made in other areas of the club, MT was devastatingly bad, or PW was an elite manager, overachieving with what he had.

Nothing against him, but the latter doesn't feel right. And although I didn't think MT was up to Championship football, at the very least he was aided by people still at the club. The noise about training facilities, the obvious lack of serious benefit from the academy, continuing reliance on loanees, and the age demographics of our squad tell me all I need to know.

This obviously isn't the doom and gloom scenario of Torquay etc, but it looks increasingly obvious we're not going to be bouncing up again... and even if we did, it's back to square one because we won't have done it with a longer term plan.

Excellent post.

The lack of structure, is awful.

Any club no matter what the size should have a system in place which a new manager can fit into seamlessly. This structure is based an a clear identity about how the club should play. There should be a list of transfer targets available and youth players coming through who are schooled in playing a certain way.

The much-maligned Stubbs was not wrong to criticise this complete lack of planning.

I think there have been tentative efforts to sort this out but I don't think our board and chairman understand how crucial it is.

I honestly think only two consecutive relegations will wake our fans up to this.

[UlleyMiller]

Any club no matter what the size should have a system in place which a new manager can fit into seamlessly. This structure is based an a clear identity about how the club should play. There should be a list of transfer targets available and youth players coming through who are schooled in playing a certain way.

The much-maligned Stubbs was not wrong to criticise this complete lack of planning.

The rationale Millers need to understand is that two things can be true at the same time. It's possible for Stubbs to be an awful manager, but understand that things aren't right at a club. This seems lost on many.

Kioso starts next season as a 25 year old and our youngest player (owned, actually playing). Sunderland, Leeds, Blackburn and Watford have played with entire teams with an average under 24. We shouldn't just have younger players getting game time, but we should have a proper nucleus of players who the fans know will be there every year, barring a crazy offer from a 'bigger' club - and not a few quid from Huddersfield or Middlesbrough ideally.

I'm not too fearful of relegation next season, I'm more concerned that we end up loaning in the maximum allocation and somehow going up again - because then we have another sticking plaster situation. We need to start properly backing the players we want here for years. Get rid of these 'last few months' situations where clubs come sniffing and players worry about getting injured.

I fully get that older fans remember the dark days (although sometimes airbrush the Ronnie era where we spent a good spell in tier two), but younger fans now have seen us go down too often to make Saturdays enjoyable. The 'I'm alright Jack' view isn't going to put us in a good place as that generation decide it's better to spend their time doing other things than to sit through 9 months of gloom out of every 2 years.

[Jocksgloves1]

When the fans wake up, what do you expect them to do? Stop going, hound the owner out of his own club?
As I said before, if people are really disturbed by the current circumstances, just walk away and do something else. It's not life or death.

[Masbroughstreet]

We were in a decent league position when he left us, whether or not he would have maintained that position is debatable.

What he did definitely do though was to leave taking his crew with him, which ripped the heart out of the running of the club, a poison pill we have yet to recover from

But that doesn’t fit in with your puppy love adoration of Warne does it?

Do you not think Taylor wouldn't have wanted Warnes 'crew' out of the door pretty much straight away anyway? That heart was getting ripped out either way, it's up to club to plan for all eventualities. Anyway, he left Taylor the club in a much better position than Taylor left it for Richardson.

[UlleyMiller]

When the fans wake up, what do you expect them to do? Stop going, hound the owner out of his own club?
As I said before, if people are really disturbed by the current circumstances, just walk away and do something else. It's not life or death.

That's the point. That's what they will do. The younger generation are raised on instant gratification - they won't stomach biennial relegations because they remember standing in the rain at Millmoor watching Scunny. And when the old guard die out, we're dropping back to early 90s attendances. All for what? Because we should be forever grateful that someone built a ground to make some old folks happy and not let fans have a say if it hurts some feelings? If you buy into football, you're fair game for criticism.