Yellow card for taking your shirt off, wtf?

[WTF11]

Examples of some "unsportsmanlike conduct" are not limited to fighting/physical altercations, verbal abuse and/or harassing comments, and moral/ethical decisions that go against league rules or "endanger the safety of any individuals".

My younger brother is often "reminded" not to engage with banter from spectators no matter what intimidation or objects comes his way as a keeper.
He cannot mark his position guide aids by marking his goal area with his studs either.
He is even required to place his water bottle in a safe & convenient position too & his Coach asks him not to spit onto the pitch during any defensive set ups.
The Ref must have such matters drawn to their attention if any of the above cause issue, apparently in his U20 league level matches.

Rightly or wrongly emotions can run high & unwittingly rules are broken obviously but in fairness the guidelines are reasonable 'tho examples of not being followed are plain to see.

MT, its not just that examples where the rules aren't being followed are plain to see, it's ALL the time! I say again., the only part of the rule you detailed earlier that appear to be subject to action by the officials, are the removing of the shirt, there are just countless examples of where the remainder of that rule are ignored, and yet there is NO action/sanction on the part of match officials, and the very easily obtained examples I gave of LUFC goal celebration are just a very small drop in a very big ocean thereof.

I'd love to see match officials given due respect (however good or bad they may have been, it's something that levels itself out over a season) but that rule either needs to be equitable applied, or it needs to be scrapped, and replaced with something that makes sense and can be applied by match officials. Better still, get in-game behaviour under control, as rugby has, control of some VERY big, VERY physically domineering individuals by someone of a relatively diminutive stature, simply because players know they will be sanctioned in-match, and their team WILL suffer if they transgress, no rocket science, just a challenge to the commercial powers that be!

[WTF11]

MT, its not just that examples where the rules aren't being followed are plain to see, it's ALL the time! I say again., the only part of the rule you detailed earlier that appear to be subject to action by the officials, are the removing of the shirt, there are just countless examples of where the remainder of that rule are ignored, and yet there is NO action/sanction on the part of match officials, and the very easily obtained examples I gave of LUFC goal celebration are just a very small drop in a very big ocean thereof.

I'd love to see match officials given due respect (however good or bad they may have been, it's something that levels itself out over a season) but that rule either needs to be equitable applied, or it needs to be scrapped, and replaced with something that makes sense and can be applied by match officials. Better still, get in-game behaviour under control, as rugby has, control of some VERY big, VERY physically domineering individuals by someone of a relatively diminutive stature, simply because players know they will be sanctioned in-match, and their team WILL suffer if they transgress, no rocket science, just a challenge to the commercial powers that be!

BTW, the rejection of the "blue card" idea by the PL is a clear indication that they LIKE how their players behave at present, and how they can influence that behaviour, not the match officials and really don't want anything to be introduced to the in-game process that would damage their way of managing player behaviour. In comparison to what the clubs could and should do, sanctions against a player taking off their shirt isn't even the drop in the ocean I referred to.

[whitestomper45]

It’s a rule that’s been in place for a long time, if the rule needs changing, then clubs can propose a change, not commit the offense and hope they get away with it.
It’s even funnier now with VAR possibly ruling against a goal.
You don’t see Rugby players running around provocatively celebrating, i don’t remember Sniffer needing to flail about like some of these spoilt brats of today

[WTF11]

It’s a rule that’s been in place for a long time, if the rule needs changing, then clubs can propose a change, not commit the offense and hope they get away with it.
It’s even funnier now with VAR possibly ruling against a goal.
You don’t see Rugby players running around provocatively celebrating, i don’t remember Sniffer needing to flail about like some of these spoilt brats of today

Wasn't suggesting that the clubs (at any level) want a change (far from it, they don't seem minded to do anything remotely associated with player discipline in either direction), simply questioning the intent of the rule and just how effective it is in every respect, including the shirt issue. The examples I provided of LUFC celebrations are a very small sample and I'm sure if I had a look at the weekends goals, I'd find a whole load more, and the majority contravene the rule in one way or another, but only the shirt removal seems to generate any response from match officials and I wonder why.

As to rugby, and the sin-bin idea that the FA and others have now rejected, the following link gives the top ten sin-binned players, the top man having been binned 10 times, since the idea was introduced nearly 20 years ago.

https://www.ruck.co.uk/joe-marler-cl...rship-history/

I'd suggest that sin-binning has had a far more fundamental effect on rugby player behaviour than the rule we are discussing has had in association football. Strange as to why the idea has been "binned" by the footballing authorities.

[Orgoner]

As an individual yellow card, it's essentially meaningless unless combined with a second yellow card in the same game or, if you're thinking in the longer term, as part of the cumulative totting up process and suspension from a future fixture (there are explicitly declared windows for such things). Any associated financial penalties can be considered trivial, unless the club itself chooses to go to town on the player.

I agree that it's arguably the lamest possible way to get a yellow card (most of the unsporting conduct offences fall into the same "lame" bucket).

That said, any coach or manager worth their paycheck will drum it into their players to avoid yellow cards unless there is no sensible alternative as, without stating the blindingly obvious, any second yellow (however it might arrive) has serious repercussions for the team as a whole.

Just watch how carded players approach tackling and general game play interactions after being carded and, more relevantly, how many of those soon get substituted off for successful management of the game.

In short, you're an idiot if you get a yellow card for celebrating a goal by removing your shirt if you're already on a yellow.

No sympathy whatsoever.

[Orgoner]

I only cover meaningless games these days (there's a case to say that pretty much all games are meaningless!) but, especially with younger players who might have some sort of future playing career, I make a point of making sure that they know the sort of stupid things that could get them into trouble in higher level games where referee flexibility is more frowned upon.

Totty's point about goalkeepers actively making scuff marks within their six yard box and goal areas to aid with their positioning is definitely one of those I try to ram home. If nothing else, it encourages them to be more subtle, if you get my drift.

I've never been card happy, but like to think active player management (talking to them during the game) goes a long way in keeping tempers down and players remaining on the pitch.

[WTF11]

As an individual yellow card, it's essentially meaningless unless combined with a second yellow card in the same game or, if you're thinking in the longer term, as part of the cumulative totting up process and suspension from a future fixture (there are explicitly declared windows for such things). Any associated financial penalties can be considered trivial, unless the club itself chooses to go to town on the player.

I agree that it's arguably the lamest possible way to get a yellow card (most of the unsporting conduct offences fall into the same "lame" bucket).

That said, any coach or manager worth their paycheck will drum it into their players to avoid yellow cards unless there is no sensible alternative as, without stating the blindingly obvious, any second yellow (however it might arrive) has serious repercussions for the team as a whole.

Just watch how carded players approach tackling and general game play interactions after being carded and, more relevantly, how many of those soon get substituted off for successful management of the game.

In short, you're an idiot if you get a yellow card for celebrating a goal by removing your shirt if you're already on a yellow.

No sympathy whatsoever.

Agree with all of that, especially the lameness of getting a yellow for taking your shirt off (and I suspect we might differ as to why it's so lame, but lame it certainly is!)

Don't care what happens to the player, and certainly not attempting to elicit sympathy, only to suggest that in the heat of the moment, I suspect we have all done "lame" things that had we the chance we would choose to undo. I stick by what I said regarding how better to influence player behaviour and improve the sportsmanship that should be shown by players to match officials (and each other), but its clear that we won't be going down the sin-bin route any time soon.

[Orgoner]

Agree with all of that, especially the lameness of getting a yellow for taking your shirt off (and I suspect we might differ as to why it's so lame, but lame it certainly is!)

Don't care what happens to the player, and certainly not attempting to elicit sympathy, only to suggest that in the heat of the moment, I suspect we have all done "lame" things that had we the chance we would choose to undo. I stick by what I said regarding how better to influence player behaviour and improve the sportsmanship that should be shown by players to match officials (and each other), but its clear that we won't be going down the sin-bin route any time soon.

The (mostly) indoor games I cover allow clean substitutions on the fly (except for goalkeepers, where I need to be told before they happen) and, when I feel a player is rapidly getting to the point where they are annoying me enough to potentially get a yellow card, I usually tell them to substitute out and take a break.

It's then essentially their choice to do so (or not) and other players on the same team will usually make sure it happens as they know a yellow card won't be far behind otherwise.

For these indoor games, a yellow card means the designated player has to leave the field and the team plays short-handed for two minutes unless the other team scores in that time.

It works well for these six-a-side and 8-a-side games (not far off the sin bin idea?), but I have wondered how well it would scale up to the 11-a-side version.

[WTF11]

The (mostly) indoor games I cover allow clean substitutions on the fly (except for goalkeepers, where I need to be told before they happen) and, when I feel a player is rapidly getting to the point where they are annoying me enough to potentially get a yellow card, I usually tell them to substitute out and take a break.

It's then essentially their choice to do so (or not) and other players on the same team will usually make sure it happens as they know a yellow card won't be far behind otherwise.

For these indoor games, a yellow card means the designated player has to leave the field and the team plays short-handed for two minutes unless the other team scores in that time.

It works well for these six-a-side and 8-a-side games (not far off the sin bin idea?), but I have wondered how well it would scale up to the 11-a-side version.

Interesting. Don't see why it wouldn't work, but it would depend on the quality of the officials (something just about everyone in football suggest needs to be improved) as the "relationship" between players and refs would need to be a good deal less fractious that it often is at present, although simply introducing the concept of a sanction that would lead to a temporary reduction in player numbers might help that along. Maybe you should suggest it to the FA?

[Orgoner]

Interesting. Don't see why it wouldn't work, but it would depend on the quality of the officials (something just about everyone in football suggest needs to be improved) as the "relationship" between players and refs would need to be a good deal less fractious that it often is at present, although simply introducing the concept of a sanction that would lead to a temporary reduction in player numbers might help that along. Maybe you should suggest it to the FA?

I think this works for me as I've played with or against a fair number of the players involved in the past and, although it probably shouldn't help, everyone also knows I'm "not American" and so perhaps pay more heed to anything I might say or call. Silly sausages!

It's not uncommon for the referees here to have never played the game in any real capacity and so they often fail when it comes to situations where play should be allowed to continue and get all het up about trivial calls (which I suppose this shirt argument falls under!).

I actually enjoy refereeing, especially when it seems as if I've helped the game flow and not inserted myself into situations where I'm not needed. It certainly isn't for everyone though.