O/T:- Is Brexit a dead duck?

[TheBlackHorse]

... you seem confused Gubbie. It may be that this is due to the strategy used by Establishment Remoaners of endless repetition such that you are bored into submission and just give up. I don't want to be part of an EU superstate run by self-appointed crooks. I'd sooner have our own crooks who we can vote out.
The solution is leave and arrange a Canada++ deal with the corrupt EU. As that format already exists it would not be like re-inventing the wheel.

[Gubbie]

No i fully understand blackhorse but no-one can predict what they will do in the future. Like you say we have our own crooks. we as a country voted leave so wtf is this all about the last 2 years should have been preparing to leave not negotiate a deal? All i know is fact 1 immigration needed sorting out and fact 2 homelessness in our own country otherwise i feel things were ok on a whole. Yes the greedy rich get richer and so on its life going back to the greedy crusaders who in fact were Christians raping killing and stealing and further back. Thats my point if you voted leave just on the treaty then fine.

[Trickytreesreds]

... err, it's not hypothetical; it's real. It's called the Lisbon Treaty; signed up to by EU member states. It's the Establishment blueprint for total control and which the Establishment (governments and media) have disguised over years in order that members become so locked-in they are unable to leave.
Remoaners - unless you are part of the dedpised Establishment - wake up!

FCO 30/1048 read it

[magpie_mania]

Not commenting on the technicalities of the Lisbon Treaty, but if it's so terrible, why has this only now been brought to our attention on here, and why aren't the Brexiters trumpeting it every day?

Maybe if Johnson, Farage etc had used this then there would have been more than 52% voting for leaving?

[Trickytreesreds]

Not commenting on the technicalities of the Lisbon Treaty, but if it's so terrible, why has this only now been brought to our attention on here, and why aren't the Brexiters trumpeting it every day?

Maybe if Johnson, Farage etc had used this then there would have been more than 52% voting for leaving?

It has been mentioned on here before. It was ignored because bus slogans were more divisive.

KNOWN OUTCOMES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN AGREED AS TRUE BY ALL SIDES:

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.

2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.

3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.

4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.

5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.

6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.

7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.

8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.

9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.

10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights

11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights

12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty

13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation

14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent

15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy

16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them

17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth

18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar ect

19: The UK loses control of its judicial system

20: The UK loses control of its international policy

21: The UK loses full control of its national policy

22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.

23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program

24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction

25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty

26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020


Yes yes, I know we are told we don't have to join the euro. We are told we don't have to be in the European army. blah blah.

We was lied to in 1972/1974 and it's been done by stealth year on year. Believe what you want, I don't trust any of them.

But hey ho.
Maybe a new flag and anthem are what we need right now.

[BigFatPie]

It has been mentioned on here before. It was ignored because bus slogans were more divisive.

KNOWN OUTCOMES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN AGREED AS TRUE BY ALL SIDES:

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.

2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.

3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.

4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.

5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.

6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.

7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.

8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.

9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.

10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights

11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights

12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty

13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation

14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent

15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy

16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them

17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth

18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar ect

19: The UK loses control of its judicial system

20: The UK loses control of its international policy

21: The UK loses full control of its national policy

22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.

23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program

24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction

25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty

26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020


Yes yes, I know we are told we don't have to join the euro. We are told we don't have to be in the European army. blah blah.

We was lied to in 1972/1974 and it's been done by stealth year on year. Believe what you want, I don't trust any of them.

But hey ho.
Maybe a new flag and anthem are what we need right now.

Thicky, I’m really trying to stop being unkind to Brexiters and not call you thick or anything anymore but you do make it difficult.

Someone (I won’t name them) posted that load of guff weeks ago. It’s made up. Sorry.

[Gubbie]

Well we are getting there aren't we because if that was in fact the case surely we would just leave as was voted for

[jackal2]

The majority of politicians on both sides are remainers, they have/will scupper any deal until they get a second referendum for which they crave. Many of them won't openly admit it though. They are hoping the public have been frightened enough by all the scare stories or are just sick to the back teeth of brexit that they will vote to remain.
This will probably work for the politicians with the combination of people changing their minds and leavers boycotting a second vote.
How the country responds after that is any ones guess,but united it won't be imo. A general election which is sure to follow will be very interesting.

I think you probably accurately reflect the agenda of many in the House of Commons, but if they think the Brexiteers in Parliament and the country will then fade away, then they must be so naïve as to be not worthy of any form of elected office.

The political and societal problems which led to the Leave vote have not gone away, in fact they're getting steadily worse, and if the political classes are perceived to have conspired to water down or disregard the will of so many people, then the anger and disillusionment with the establishment will only continue to grow. The Leave vote was, in effect, a way of kicking "the man". It was a staging post, a pressure release valve, a relatively gentle warning of the ever more deep-rooted disillusionment of significant section of the population, and yet a large number of supposedly experienced and intelligent politicians and civil servants apparently can't see it from their ivory towers in Westminster.

If your intention was to engineer a set of circumstances that could eventually lead to a (probably hard-right) populist Government in this country (which the current Conservative/DUP Government certainly is not) then you would probably be extremely pleased with the direction of travel right now.

[i961pie]

I think you probably accurately reflect the agenda of many in the House of Commons, but if they think the Brexiteers in Parliament and the country will then fade away, then they must be so naïve as to be not worthy of any form of elected office.

The political and societal problems which led to the Leave vote have not gone away, in fact they're getting steadily worse, and if the political classes are perceived to have conspired to water down or disregard the will of so many people, then the anger and disillusionment with the establishment will only continue to grow. The Leave vote was, in effect, a way of kicking "the man". It was a staging post, a pressure release valve, a relatively gentle warning of the ever more deep-rooted disillusionment of significant section of the population, and yet a large number of supposedly experienced and intelligent politicians and civil servants apparently can't see it from their ivory towers in Westminster.

If your intention was to engineer a set of circumstances that could eventually lead to a (probably hard-right) populist Government in this country (which the current Conservative/DUP Government certainly is not) then you would probably be extremely pleased with the direction of travel right now.

You are probably right. Europe is heading that way mainly because the politicians ignored their people.

[jackal2]

You are probably right. Europe is heading that way mainly because the politicians ignored their people.

Not just Europe either...

The political establishment in various countries across the globe have sleepwalked into a situation they thought "couldn't possibly happen here".