O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[MadAmster]

That's better than your previous working directly for the state. But how would you determine working for the good of society?

Would you include any of the following, accountants working for health companies, architects for building companies who have built schools, roads, hospitals or even HS2? Or maybe researchers for pharmaceutical companies?

The list is very long and the idea is unworkable, its not as if these people aren't being paid for what they're doing.

My answer to that question would be no. Accountants working for health companies, architects for building companies who have built schools, roads, hospitals or even HS2? Or maybe researchers for pharmaceutical companies........... they are all working for companies in the private sector as opposed to in the public sector. They will (or most of them anyway) be better paid than those doing similar jobs in the public sector.

[ramAnag]

That's better than your previous working directly for the state. But how would you determine working for the good of society?

Would you include any of the following, accountants working for health companies, architects for building companies who have built schools, roads, hospitals or even HS2? Or maybe researchers for pharmaceutical companies?

The list is very long and the idea is unworkable, its not as if these people aren't being paid for what they're doing.

That’s a very fair point, Ram...and the answer is...I don’t know.
I guess it’s something along the lines of...those who work for pharma companies, or Rolls Royce whatever, are ultimately working for a) the good of themselves and b) the good of the company, whereas those who work for the NHS or state schools are working for a) the good of themselves and b) the good of the country.
One of my best friends spent his whole working life with Rolls Royce. He and I both did relatively well, were paid much the same and have similar pensions, but he also benefited from the ability to buy employee based shares in the company.
I don’t resent that for one second...and as things stand at this precise moment they haven’t done him much good...but I do wonder if, nowadays, those who enter the national health or education professions, for example, should have the opportunity to be rewarded in a similar way with, again for example, the payback of a percentage of tuition fees for every ten years of ‘service’.

[Geoff Parkstone]

If we accept the difference between working for the good of society, rather than working for the state, we may have some greater consensus rA. For example working for a state owned armaments company might not be working for the good of society....

It all just comes back to another way to look at the pay disparity between the public and private sector. This has always existed and has been debated for years. The private sector may pay more, but that employment carries greater risk of job insecurity. That's what makes the difference in pay as far as I see it. The private sector don't pay more than the public out of any sense of generosity, they are there to make profits: governments arguably arent. The private sector pay more to get the best quality employees.

So are you saying we should reward someone who the private sector don't want to headhunt because they have been loyal to the state system? Have they been loyal, or just not good enough to be recruited away?

Its a trade off in the way people are rewarded. I don't see the "inherent virtue" in working in the public sector, its a job. If you don't like it, don't do it. The job market is about open competition, not assigning degrees of righteousness to certain roles. If that were the case, office cleaners might get paid more than high court judges.

But to contextualise this in a covid environment, if I were looking for a job right now, I'd prioritise long term job security over short term higher reward. Those public sector jobs seem a way better option because of the financial risk of an employer going tits up - so no need to bribe people to take them. People will be ripping hands off to get them pretty soon

[Ram59]

Hands up, who has downloaded the Covid-19 app.

If you haven't, are you going to, but if not why not?

I have Btw.

[ramAnag]

If we accept the difference between working for the good of society, rather than working for the state, we may have some greater consensus rA. For example working for a state owned armaments company might not be working for the good of society....

It all just comes back to another way to look at the pay disparity between the public and private sector. This has always existed and has been debated for years. The private sector may pay more, but that employment carries greater risk of job insecurity. That's what makes the difference in pay as far as I see it. The private sector don't pay more than the public out of any sense of generosity, they are there to make profits: governments arguably arent. The private sector pay more to get the best quality employees.

So are you saying we should reward someone who the private sector don't want to headhunt because they have been loyal to the state system? Have they been loyal, or just not good enough to be recruited away?

Its a trade off in the way people are rewarded. I don't see the "inherent virtue" in working in the public sector, its a job. If you don't like it, don't do it. The job market is about open competition, not assigning degrees of righteousness to certain roles. If that were the case, office cleaners might get paid more than high court judges.

But to contextualise this in a covid environment, if I were looking for a job right now, I'd prioritise long term job security over short term higher reward. Those public sector jobs seem a way better option because of the financial risk of an employer going tits up - so no need to bribe people to take them. People will be ripping hands off to get them pretty soon

Some fair points and it’s complex.
I’m not actually ‘assigning degrees of righteousness to certain roles’ and I would very much question your assumption that the private sector attracts the ‘best quality employees’.
There are many examples of industry providing support in the form of paying for tuition fees...maybe something similar needs to be put in place for those who commit to the public sector too. That’s all.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Id suggest that the private sector tries to attract better quality staff via higher pay - I would agree they don't always get that decision right!

yes private sector often assists employees with educational costs - eg accountants, architects and law firms with their staff professional examinations. I was beneficiary of that in my early post university working life - but it came at a cost: virtual slave labour. It was but a few years prior to my first job when trainee accountants didn't get paid at all in exchange for such benefits - and not long before then you used to have to pay to be employed and trained.

[Andy_Faber]

Hands up, who has downloaded the Covid-19 app.

If you haven't, are you going to, but if not why not?

I have Btw.

I won't be doing.

My phone was trying to pair with a neighbour (who had his hotspot on) all day today but it won't pair with my car even when I'm in it.

I'm compliant with other HMG rules/laws including 2X2 week self isolations so far and would download it if it became law but don't trust bluetooth technology I'm afraid

[ramAnag]

I won't be doing.

My phone was trying to pair with a neighbour (who had his hotspot on) all day today but it won't pair with my car even when I'm in it.

I'm compliant with other HMG rules/laws including 2X2 week self isolations so far and would download it if it became law but don't trust bluetooth technology I'm afraid

That might be you Andy...mine pairs perfectly with my car, two sound docks in the house and any rental car...and I’m a technological f***wit.
Having said that, I downloaded the Covid App today and it tells me the risk in my postcode is ‘MEDIUM’....but I’m 1800 miles away from my postcode and all I get is an expanding green circle telling me my app is ‘active and scanning’.
Think I might have broken the system...Ram59...please advise.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I downloaded it and it's doing the same for me rA

[Andy_Faber]

That might be you Andy...mine pairs perfectly with my car, two sound docks in the house and any rental car...and I’m a technological f***wit.
Having said that, I downloaded the Covid App today and it tells me the risk in my postcode is ‘MEDIUM’....but I’m 1800 miles away from my postcode and all I get is an expanding green circle telling me my app is ‘active and scanning’.
Think I might have broken the system...Ram59...please advise.

The car thing might be me (or the car), still not keen to be an early adopter.

On a more public-spirited level, and looking at economic impact rather than health, I'm considering 'sponsoring' a musician I know who is on his uppers