I voted yes....but felt like I'd been kicked in the ba's the day

[stewarty27]

The whole point of Independence is that we would run our economy differntly. Trying to say the recent GERs figures is an indication of how a Indy Scotland would is totally cr@p and disingenuous. Scotland is a very Wealthy Country ! Over the last 40 years has knowingly diverted billions of pounds of Scottish revenue to Westminster. Evidence such as the McCrone Report, classified as top secret for 30 years by the 1970s Labour Government but now publicly available, states that “the SNP had underestimated the nation’s oil wealth” and that an independent Scotland would “suffer from an embarrassment of riches”. That report was written in 1974 and classified as secret due to worries about “restless natives” if its facts were known by the masses in Scotland. It was eventually made public only after a Freedom of Information Act request in 2005. The Britnats are creaming their punts about the lastest GERs but the never ever mention the fact that for 32 years up until 2012 Scotland had run a surplus. We are paying a share of the WM debt of 64 Bn .If Scotland had only to pay for its own debts then we would have been building up massive surpluses of cash for at least a generation. Cash that could have been invested in a sovereign oil fund to secure our pensions and to secure the NHS, cash that could also have been invested in infrastructure or the business of re-industrialising Scotland to create a larger, more successful and wealthier nation than we have now. When you look at GERS estimates of Historic Fiscal Balances with the interest on non-Scottish debt deducted it shows Scotland had a cumulative public sector surplus until 2004/05 and a cumulative deficit of £49 billion by 2011/12. The sharp decline from 2005-12 was generated by the banking crash during the stewardship of Westminster Chancellor Alistair Darling, who is of course now head of the No Campaign. With Independence we could start reversing all this mismanagement and start to build our economy creating a very managable income and spending policy. Scotland would also have a share of the UK assets and of course the debt but we would be in a far better position to manage this with full control of finances Independence would bring.

[stewarty27]

Of course we will now get the Dundee half wit on asking me for a break down penny for penny but no gonna play that @rseholes game ony mair.

[noahrab]

The whole point of Independence is that we would run our economy differntly. Trying to say the recent GERs figures is an indication of how a Indy Scotland would is totally cr@p and disingenuous. Scotland is a very Wealthy Country ! Over the last 40 years has knowingly diverted billions of pounds of Scottish revenue to Westminster. Evidence such as the McCrone Report, classified as top secret for 30 years by the 1970s Labour Government but now publicly available, states that “the SNP had underestimated the nation’s oil wealth” and that an independent Scotland would “suffer from an embarrassment of riches”. That report was written in 1974 and classified as secret due to worries about “restless natives” if its facts were known by the masses in Scotland. It was eventually made public only after a Freedom of Information Act request in 2005. The Britnats are creaming their punts about the lastest GERs but the never ever mention the fact that for 32 years up until 2012 Scotland had run a surplus. We are paying a share of the WM debt of 64 Bn .If Scotland had only to pay for its own debts then we would have been building up massive surpluses of cash for at least a generation. Cash that could have been invested in a sovereign oil fund to secure our pensions and to secure the NHS, cash that could also have been invested in infrastructure or the business of re-industrialising Scotland to create a larger, more successful and wealthier nation than we have now. When you look at GERS estimates of Historic Fiscal Balances with the interest on non-Scottish debt deducted it shows Scotland had a cumulative public sector surplus until 2004/05 and a cumulative deficit of £49 billion by 2011/12. The sharp decline from 2005-12 was generated by the banking crash during the stewardship of Westminster Chancellor Alistair Darling, who is of course now head of the No Campaign. With Independence we could start reversing all this mismanagement and start to build our economy creating a very managable income and spending policy. Scotland would also have a share of the UK assets and of course the debt but we would be in a far better position to manage this with full control of finances Independence would bring.

Someone else's fault. Blah blah blah.

Why won't you answer a question without looking backwards?

Anyone starting a new business tomorrow would look at income/expenditure/borrowings/cash flow.

Heres an opportunity to convert others who don't share your opinion.

IScotland day 1 is tomorrow. Show us how we will be financially viable and make life better for Scotland going forward.

You seem to have great difficulty doing so and throw a strop whenever asked a simple question.

Do give it a try or you'll confirm what I suspect, you want independence regardless of the cost to our nation.

[noahrab]

Of course we will now get the Dundee half wit on asking me for a break down penny for penny but no gonna play that @rseholes game ony mair.

He might well do but as I'm not from Dundee you must mean DABmo.

Anyway, no ones asked for a penny by penny breakdown, just what it would look like in say 1/3/5yrs time.

Not a difficult question.

[JackSnakes]

I'm pretty certain that simply isn't true at all.


* I'm being pedantic but the way you describe the flow of money there is interesting. Scotland does indeed pay its revenue to the treasury but rather than Scotland then paying out money in public spending it is actually this money the UK government spends on Scotland. Keeping services running in the years that Scotland hasn't made enough to cover it.

I am not trying to describe the flow of money, simply explaining how this £15bn deficit figure was arrived at, which is the amount of money Scotland makes in taxes against the amount of public spending.
To work out a nation's economy is, I think, a little more complicated than that, which is why I think it is ridiculous that this figure is being used as some kind of stick to beat the yessers with.
However, you may be right about my assertion regarding the surplus - it is possible I have confused the fact that Scotland has paid in more per capita for many years than the rest of the UK (it has also taken out more per capita so without a bit more research I'd have to withdraw that one)
Stewarty does have a point though in that comparing Scotland's economy whilst it is part of the United Kingdom to the economy of an independent Scotland is a wee bit "apples/oranges". The two situations would be vastly different.
Whether one would be vastly better, or vastly worse, or just a wee bit either side of the line marked "same as before" no-one really knows.
You can only ever have a best guess.

[neilo]

The Britnats are creaming their punts about the lastest GERs but the never ever mention the fact that for 32 years up until 2012 Scotland had run a surplus. .

Can you show evidence of this because I think that's total rubbish.


Please post the figures....even if it's one of your usual cut and paste jobs please post the figures.

[JackSnakes]

The figures for the five years from 2007 - 2011


Income Spending
49,776 52,810
52,282 55,969
55,131 58,866
47,846 62,025
53,128 63,807


I am sure more recent figures are also available...

I am not sure what this will tell anyone, other than the fact that the UK as a whole runs a deficit system. Scotland is not responsible for the UK deficit, but it is responsible for its share.

[noahrab]

The figures for the five years from 2007 - 2011


Income Spending
49,776 52,810
52,282 55,969
55,131 58,866
47,846 62,025
53,128 63,807


I am sure more recent figures are also available...

I am not sure what this will tell anyone, other than the fact that the UK as a whole runs a deficit system. Scotland is not responsible for the UK deficit, but it is responsible for its share.

Is that just Scotland's figures?

[JackSnakes]

Is that just Scotland's figures?

Yes... That is in billions...

[stewarty27]

Why won't you answer a question without looking backwards?

Of course you have to look backwards to see where we are today. And by looking backwards we can see how we have been ripped off for decades. This is extremely relevant as to how an Independent Scotland would successfully run it's economy. You keep asking what income/expenditure/borrowings/cash flow. would be in an Independent Scotland. You know fine well I can't give you the figures for this ..thats why you keep asking. Just you can't tell me what the situation in the UK will be in a couple of years time. Now I really hope you are going to be mature about this and not jump up and down like a schoolboy and say I've won I've won. What I can say with certainty and please be grown up about this and address you're response to this bit.

Scotland has a very rich and diverse economy Yes or No
Scotland’s economy includes £21.4 billion in construction which employs 170,000 people, £11.6 billion in tourism which supports 292,000 jobs, £39 billion yearly turnover in manufacturing with a value added of £12.7 billion and 127,000 people employed. Scotland also has world leading expertise in life science, world class universities (5 in the world’s top 200), a multi-billion pound creative sector and vast energy (oil, gas, tidal, wave, wind and solar), fishing and agricultural resources. Do you agree with these figures ?

Scotland’s economy includes £21.4 billion in construction which employs 170,000 people, £11.6 billion in tourism which supports 292,000 jobs, £39 billion yearly turnover in manufacturing with a value added of £12.7 billion and 127,000 people employed. Scotland also has world leading expertise in life science, world class universities (5 in the world’s top 200), a multi-billion pound creative sector and vast energy (oil, gas, tidal, wave, wind and solar), fishing and agricultural resources.

Scotland’s economy includes £21.4 billion in construction which employs 170,000 people, £11.6 billion in tourism which supports 292,000 jobs, £39 billion yearly turnover in manufacturing with a value added of £12.7 billion and 127,000 people employed. Scotland also has world leading expertise in life science, world class universities (5 in the world’s top 200), a multi-billion pound creative sector and vast energy (oil, gas, tidal, wave, wind and solar), fishing and agricultural resources.

ther is also the things we wouldn't be paying for far to numerous to mention. We would also be entitled to our fair share of UK assets.

We have the resources and people to be a very very successful Country you just need to get out of your comfort zone and find this out for yourself. And try to resist being spoon fed all the negative failure propaganda that we've been getting fed all these years.

Now I've tried to be as honest as I can with you maybe its time for you to give us a Detailed account of why we would fail as an Independent Country.