Ot- May calls for election in June.

[ramAnag]

I agree May is definitely no fool, she doesn't need to take any risks to improve her position. A disastrous debate can only damage the Tories, the others are already seriously damaged and can only gain from a debate.

She's a former Home Secretary and a current PM for goodness sake. The 'opposition' is completely inexperienced in comparison. If she can't handle Corbyn and Co. what chance her handling the terms of our EU exit? Personally I'll be glad to see the end of Corbyn but I can't help thinking this is complete cowardice on the part of May. She might have come to see herself as an amalgam of the Queen and Thatcher of late but her mind changes over the election - six times she's categorically said there will be no 'snap' election - and this refusal to debate do not inspire confidence.

Nice to see you back southern...think your return from retirement should be permanent.

P.S. Note the Beast of Bolsover has also had something relevant to say today, 'Will the PM confirm that no Tory MP under investigation by the police over election expenses in the last General Election will be a candidate in this election because if she won't this will be the most squalid election campaign in my lifetime'.
He has a point imo.

[Andy_Faber]

She's a former Home Secretary and a current PM for goodness sake. The 'opposition' is completely inexperienced in comparison. If she can't handle Corbyn and Co. what chance her handling the terms of our EU exit? Personally I'll be glad to see the end of Corbyn but I can't help thinking this is complete cowardice on the part of May. .

IMO and no party political point to be made she is just reverting to conservative/Darwinist principles of survival of the fittest. In a football analogy, when Derby were 4-0 against Forest, did you want them to back off or go for 5?

[ramAnag]

IMO and no party political point to be made she is just reverting to conservative/Darwinist principles of survival of the fittest. In a football analogy, when Derby were 4-0 against Forest, did you want them to back off or go for 5?

I wanted them to go for 5...or 6 Andy but I'm not sure about the analogy. She's pressed home the advantage by calling an election at a time when she has a huge lead in the polls. She now has a moral and political responsibility to the electorate to argue her/the Tory stance. Brexit isn't the only issue, this is a General Election not a second referendum and issues such as the NHS, education/training for the young and social care for the elderly and weakest in society are equally important imo.

[Ram59]

She's a former Home Secretary and a current PM for goodness sake. The 'opposition' is completely inexperienced in comparison. If she can't handle Corbyn and Co. what chance her handling the terms of our EU exit? Personally I'll be glad to see the end of Corbyn but I can't help thinking this is complete cowardice on the part of May. She might have come to see herself as an amalgam of the Queen and Thatcher of late but her mind changes over the election - six times she's categorically said there will be no 'snap' election - and this refusal to debate do not inspire confidence.

Nice to see you back southern...think your return from retirement should be permanent.

P.S. Note the Beast of Bolsover has also had something relevant to say today, 'Will the PM confirm that no Tory MP under investigation by the police over election expenses in the last General Election will be a candidate in this election because if she won't this will be the most squalid election campaign in my lifetime'.
He has a point imo.

On your first point, 3 nil up at useless Rotherham with 8 minutes to go, I would have preferred Wassall to have been a coward and not get in a shoot out.

So you're agreeing with the beast that a person's career and livelihood should be held back because of an enquiry against them. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. If proven guilty, then they should receive the appropriate punishment. The beast is just trying to gain cheap publicity. I take it you wouldn't complain if you were sacked as soon as police questioned you over a crime.

Remember, an MP couldn't have the chance to get their job back next week, they would have to wait 5 years, even if they were innocent.

[roger_ramjet]

I wanted them to go for 5...or 6 Andy but I'm not sure about the analogy. She's pressed home the advantage by calling an election at a time when she has a huge lead in the polls. She now has a moral and political responsibility to the electorate to argue her/the Tory stance. Brexit isn't the only issue, this is a General Election not a second referendum and issues such as the NHS, education/training for the young and social care for the elderly and weakest in society are equally important imo.

I am sure she/they will argue the case, just not on the platform of a TV debate which is of questionable value in my mind, usually becoming an aimless squabble - we should have had a TV debate on R4J perhaps?

[ramAnag]

I am sure she/they will argue the case, just not on the platform of a TV debate which is of questionable value in my mind, usually becoming an aimless squabble - we should have had a TV debate on R4J perhaps?

Can't we just forget him Rog?

TV debate is surely the best way to deliver a manifesto message to as many as possible. Many complaints about lack of information over Brexit so let's not make that mistake again. A televised debate, or two, is the best way for the four or possibly five main parties to state their case to as many as possible. What is wrong with that and what is she frightened of?

OT...when is the launch party for your campaign to be a mod?

[ramAnag]

On your first point, 3 nil up at useless Rotherham with 8 minutes to go, I would have preferred Wassall to have been a coward and not get in a shoot out.

So you're agreeing with the beast that a person's career and livelihood should be held back because of an enquiry against them. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. If proven guilty, then they should receive the appropriate punishment. The beast is just trying to gain cheap publicity. I take it you wouldn't complain if you were sacked as soon as police questioned you over a crime.

Remember, an MP couldn't have the chance to get their job back next week, they would have to wait 5 years, even if they were innocent.

I take your point Ram59 and accept it's a good one for people in more 'normal' occupations but...you surely can't be happy at the prospect of a possible narrow election victory being made up by numbers that equate to those currently under suspicion of electoral fraud?
I do get more than a little frustrated by the number of times politicians and dignitaries get away with telling outrageous lies whether that be over Brexit, alleged 2015 electoral fraud or historical child abuse allegations. They always seem to slip away untouched by the rules of common decency.

[Ram59]

I take your point Ram59 and accept it's a good one for people in more 'normal' occupations but...you surely can't be happy at the prospect of a possible narrow election victory being made up by numbers that equate to those currently under suspicion of electoral fraud?
I do get more than a little frustrated by the number of times politicians and dignitaries get away with telling outrageous lies whether that be over Brexit, alleged 2015 electoral fraud or historical child abuse allegations. They always seem to slip away untouched by the rules of common decency.

Surely, it's up to the local electorate to make the decision, they'll be aware of the enquiries.

BTW, I don't remember the beast asking Corbyn to get rid of that racist Diane Abbott, who openly said that only black mothers knew how to take care of the kids. Oh, she's still on the front bench, I see. Could you imagine a white Tory female MP still being on the front bench?

As regards wanting May to be braver, I'd rather the PM running my country to do the safe thing in her actions and not going gung ho, we'll leave that to Trump.

[roger_ramjet]

Can't we just forget him Rog?

TV debate is surely the best way to deliver a manifesto message to as many as possible. Many complaints about lack of information over Brexit so let's not make that mistake again. A televised debate, or two, is the best way for the four or possibly five main parties to state their case to as many as possible. What is wrong with that and what is she frightened of?

OT...when is the launch party for your campaign to be a mod?

I dont suppose she is frightened of anything but its up to her to campaign the way she wants. In the US, where these things started, it was relevant as the whole country was voting for one individual. Here we are voting for 630 individuals at local level.

Furthermore why give the no hopers a sniff of publicity? Corbyn seems unelectable, I dont even know who the Lib leader is and UKIP no longer have a purpose. The Jock? I dont even want to hear her view as it will be a one eyed "give us another independence vote" tirade again.

As Ive said before this election, as many before, will be determined in a few key marginals and I dont live in one of those. My vote is thus of no value whatsoever as I live in a "pig with a blue rosette" constituency. The scenario will be muddied by the Brexit factor, but again not where I live which voted out.

So i wont watch the debates on tv whoever is in them as it wont influence anything for me or the final outcome. My right to vote was hard fought for in the 1800s and early 1900s but frankly its not worth jack.

[ramAnag]

If you're thinking I'm in the Corbyn/Abbot camp, Ram59, I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree. Can't stand Abbot and I think Corbyn's an unelectable idealist. Fact remains though that I think the current Tory majority is around seven**** and a good deal more than that are under investigation for electoral fraud. No matter how much you try and muddy the waters that can't be right going into yet another election can it?

I don't think engaging in live debate can be described as 'going ho' anyway. It's surely just part of the job.

I thought the 'out' vote was very marginal where you live Rog so it might be less of a 'foregone' than usual. Imagine you must be in favour of electoral reform then?