Careless Tories!

[MadAmster]

I hope that the outcome of the inquiry is that they come to the conclusion that there was a lot of fraud going on and that those who profited from the, now known to be, illegal VIP fast lane and then failed to deliver at all/partially or delivered sub standard PPE are a) forced to cough up whatever they got paid and b) end up in Court for fraud or whatever it's deemed to be. I also hope that any politicians found to have broken the Law face the full force of that same Law.

We have one PPE case over here. A chap and 2 accomplices managed to get just shy of €130. They had said they would obviously take a fair wage for the work but their dealings would be not for profit. They supplied good quality PPE. The government paid the money up front. It was supposed to all go on PPE. It turned out later that the 3 of them each made €9M out of it. They lied. They got various companies to provide service free of charge as theirs was a not for profit affair. They are being sued by some huge companies as well as facing criminal charges. We should know in the next couple of months if any politicians are to be sued/charged.

[ramAnag]

No fighting from me, I'm agreed with you on a principle level on all your points, only differing in accepting that that's the going rate for the service, though if you're looking for a fight I could resort and call you a Commie (I'm joking of course).
I get more irritated by people who get paid the going rate, in any trade, not being competent. I'm sure we can all think of a colleague past / present, who you wonder how the hell they got their job. A previous manager of mine a prime example, knew sweet FA, but was a good blagger. Does a job for 18 months, then moves on, by the time people realise how useless they are, it's too late! Our politicians are masters at this!

Yes I fully recognise your manager/colleague scenario, while the rest is exactly my point...what’s happening is that, having already paid once for the possible incompetence of our political ‘masters’, we’re now paying again, through the nose, to have it all investigated.

I honestly expected a response - except from GP - such as...don’t talk daft rA, nobody’s being paid £1kph...but it seems there’s general acceptance of it and, from what I’ve heard some of the questioning isn’t particularly efficient or forensic.

An example...I was stuck in traffic coming out of Manchester yesterday evening and thus paying more attention than I might have been to the Covid enquiry. Hancock was asked a question about Johnson’s understanding/response of/to some element of Covid transmission. He blathered around clearly trying to cover his own back and that of the former PM. When told he ‘couldn’t have it both ways’ he replied, ‘well it depends how diplomatic you want me to be’.
‘Forget diplomacy...how about you just tell us the f’ing truth!’ I found myself shouting at the car radio...sadly the ‘inquisitor’ (don’t know which one) just let it go and moved on.

[Andy_Faber]

Yes I fully recognise your manager/colleague scenario, while the rest is exactly my point...what’s happening is that, having already paid once for the possible incompetence of our political ‘masters’, we’re now paying again, through the nose, to have it all investigated.

I honestly expected a response - except from GP - such as...don’t talk daft rA, nobody’s being paid £1kph...but it seems there’s general acceptance of it and, from what I’ve heard some of the questioning isn’t particularly efficient or forensic.

An example...I was stuck in traffic coming out of Manchester yesterday evening and thus paying more attention than I might have been to the Covid enquiry. Hancock was asked a question about Johnson’s understanding/response of/to some element of Covid transmission. He blathered around clearly trying to cover his own back and that of the former PM. When told he ‘couldn’t have it both ways’ he replied, ‘well it depends how diplomatic you want me to be’.
‘Forget diplomacy...how about you just tell us the f’ing truth!’ I found myself shouting at the car radio...sadly the ‘inquisitor’ (don’t know which one) just let it go and moved on.

The fellahs ‘in the dock’ are or were the most senior in their specialism in the country, regardless of their competence in those positions. Would you not expect the folk on the questioning side to be the most senior?

[Ramshank72]

Now to create a fight before leaving the room... I don't think the handling of Covid was incompetent, and that under the unprecedented circumstances, they did a good job in managing a crisis. They made personal mistakes, but that shouldn't overshadow the good work that they did in serving the country.
RS checking out, back to football threads only.....

[ramAnag]

The fellahs ‘in the dock’ are or were the most senior in their specialism in the country, regardless of their competence in those positions. Would you not expect the folk on the questioning side to be the most senior?

Not all the ‘fellahs in the dock’ were the most senior in their specialism in the country...unless their specialism was dishonesty and back stabbing.
That is one of the things to have emerged...that the likes of Johnson and, to a lesser extent Hancock, couldn’t actually grasp the science they were telling us all too follow.
I would expect the ‘folk on the questioning side’ to be the ‘most senior’. I wouldn’t expect them to charge the amounts spoken of.
I even accept RS’s point and will be eternally grateful for the timely delivery of a vaccine however the way in which an ever increasing number of politicians appear to be contradicting each other and trying to dodge responsibility for some of the things that happened is, imo, disturbing, especially seeing as such contradiction comes from the lips of those politicians themselves.

[Andy_Faber]

Not all the ‘fellahs in the dock’ were the most senior in their specialism in the country...unless their specialism was dishonesty and back stabbing.
That is one of the things to have emerged...that the likes of Johnson and, to a lesser extent Hancock, couldn’t actually grasp the science they were telling us all too follow.
I would expect the ‘folk on the questioning side’ to be the ‘most senior’. I wouldn’t expect them to charge the amounts spoken of.
I even accept RS’s point and will be eternally grateful for the timely delivery of a vaccine however the way in which an ever increasing number of politicians appear to be contradicting each other and trying to dodge responsibility for some of the things that happened is, imo, disturbing, especially seeing as such contradiction comes from the lips of those politicians themselves.

I think you’re mixing two subjects and letting personal enmity get in the way of one and your (your word) naivity regarding supply and demand in the labour market/your idealistic nature get in the way of the other.

[ramAnag]

I think you’re mixing two subjects and letting personal enmity get in the way of one and your (your word) naivity regarding supply and demand in the labour market/your idealistic nature get in the way of the other.

Not sure about the ‘personal enmity’...the politicians themselves have displayed more than enough of that towards each other.

‘Naivety’ and idealism...possibly guilty as charged, and we’ve had the ‘supply and demand’ debate before, it’s invariably just an excuse for rampant profiteering and this example seems to be no exception.
Surely though there’s a wealth of people equipped to ask relevant questions and get to the truth?
The police for instance should be considered expert in such an area...they are familiar with the process of investigating all those from professional fraudsters to the dangerously delusional (should cover all bases) and they’d probably charge something like £1000 per week rather than the obscenely exorbitant hourly rates being spoken of.

[swaledale]

Not sure about the ‘personal enmity’...the politicians themselves have displayed more than enough of that towards each other.

‘Naivety’ and idealism...possibly guilty as charged, and we’ve had the ‘supply and demand’ debate before, it’s invariably just an excuse for rampant profiteering and this example seems to be no exception.
Surely though there’s a wealth of people equipped to ask relevant questions and get to the truth?
The police for instance should be considered expert in such an area...they are familiar with the process of investigating all those from professional fraudsters to the dangerously delusional (should cover all bases) and they’d probably charge something like £1000 per week rather than the obscenely exorbitant hourly rates being spoken of.

Blimey rA for a top KC? I used to charge between £500 and £750 per day doing consultancy and picked u more work than I could handle and am not in the same league as a top KC!!

Also those figures aren't net to the individual, they work out of chambers and have office, support costs and tax etc. to pay. I think if I'd put the years of study in to qualify and gain experience, those rates aren't out of this world. I mean at least your getting knowledge and experience for that.

As for the cross examination, I think you miss the point, the KC isn't there in an enquiry to attack those giving evidence, more to get to the truth, such that it is and expose the weaknesses. With Hancock, the KC basically made him look foolish and Hancock's inability to give a straight answer was enough to show him up for the incompetent dimwit he undoubtedly is.

[MadAmster]

The figure quoted in the first sentence of paragraph 2 in post #791 should of course read €130M.

With regard to Hancock at the INQUIRY (it's not an enquiry), he shouldn't be being diplomatic at all. He was posed straight questions, he should have given truthful and straight answers. Makes my blood boil.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Not sure about the ‘personal enmity’...the politicians themselves have displayed more than enough of that towards each other.

‘Naivety’ and idealism...possibly guilty as charged, and we’ve had the ‘supply and demand’ debate before, it’s invariably just an excuse for rampant profiteering and this example seems to be no exception.
Surely though there’s a wealth of people equipped to ask relevant questions and get to the truth?
The police for instance should be considered expert in such an area...they are familiar with the process of investigating all those from professional fraudsters to the dangerously delusional (should cover all bases) and they’d probably charge something like £1000 per week rather than the obscenely exorbitant hourly rates being spoken of.

I think the only person being delusional here is you rA. 1000 a week for someone to lead an inquiry of this magnitude? That's less than the typical train driver gets a week - they may be good at driving trains but not probing the weasels that infest our political systems.

1000 an hour is steep but,
as Swale says that includes running chambers and paying overheads. When I was in profession the charge out rate was usually 1/3 salary, 1/3 overhead, 1/3 profit and to cover non chargeable time (tax included ).

So if we said 350 an hour for the individual that derives around 12,500 a week. Less than the average bloke who kicks a ball around. For a top barrister. 10% of what a decent footballer might command. For reference Kane is on 480k a week at Bayern (and may get luncheon vouchers too for all I know).

Sure HK may have a shorter career, let's say 12 years at average of 200k a week. You top flight barrister mm ight at best get 25 years at 12.5k a week. You "do the math! And when I last looked barristers don't get lucrative deals for wearing a Nike wig 😄