Political Thread in memory of David Reid. (R.I.P.)

[The Bedlington Terrier]

"I would sincerely advise anyone gobbing off about Gaza to watch this and give their head a gentle wobble."

Two fully militarily equipped sovereign nations going to-to-toe is not really the same an one fully operational, heavily armed nation knocking the $hit out of 2.5 million unharmed civilians is it sinkov?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Definitely not the most moral army in the world!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/video/news/israel-using-starvation-as-weapon-of-war/vi-BB1k62sp?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a63fedb2c0b64dd0a5bf4cafba40d49b&ei=32#details

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Israel is now a religious fundamentalist state backed terrorist enterprise...

https://www.facebook.com/MindfulTruth/videos/785322739786497?idorvanity=1698390603769701

[The Bedlington Terrier]

No-one likes them, they don't care...

ihttps://www.facebook.com/reel/378876751777397

[The Bedlington Terrier]

WTF is Biden doing..?

[Swissclaret]

I speak with an Israeli nearly every day. She has told me many times that Israel is a divided country.

There are the secular Jews who are not religious. Then there are the Orthodox Jews who practice the Jewish faith. Finally there are the ultra -orthodox Jews who are extreme in following the Torah to the letter.

In her opinion as a secular Jew, too many concessions and accommodations are given to the Orthodox and ultra - Orthodox who wield far too much power over the Netanyahu government.

In that context, Israel is being dictated to by extremists who want the annihilation of Palestine and the Palestinians. They see the “Holy Land” as the “Promised Land” of the twelve tribes, with Palestinians as usurpers. They are no more interested in a peaceful solution than is Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I speak with an Israeli nearly every day. She has told me many times that Israel is a divided country.

There are the secular Jews who are not religious. Then there are the Orthodox Jews who practice the Jewish faith. Finally there are the ultra -orthodox Jews who are extreme in following the Torah to the letter.

In her opinion as a secular Jew, too many concessions and accommodations are given to the Orthodox and ultra - Orthodox who wield far too much power over the Netanyahu government.

In that context, Israel is being dictated to by extremists who want the annihilation of Palestine and the Palestinians. They see the “Holy Land” as the “Promised Land” of the twelve tribes, with Palestinians as usurpers. They are no more interested in a peaceful solution than is Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah.

About right S.c.

[sinkov]

I don't want to get involved in political Punch and Judy Shows any more, I have far better things to do with my time, but I couldn't let this one pass without comment. Apparently British politicians of every hue are demanding we stop selling arms to Israel after some aid workers were killed in an air strike.

Could any of these hypocritical morons give me a reasonable estimate of the number of innocent civilians killed in RAF air strikes in Libya, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, an estimate to the nearest hundred would suffice. Then could they explain why they never demanded we stopped arming the RAF after these 'accidents' ?

[kritichris]

I don't want to get involved in political Punch and Judy Shows any more, I have far better things to do with my time, but I couldn't let this one pass without comment. Apparently British politicians of every hue are demanding we stop selling arms to Israel after some aid workers were killed in an air strike.

Could any of these hypocritical morons give me a reasonable estimate of the number of innocent civilians killed in RAF air strikes in Libya, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, an estimate to the nearest hundred would suffice. Then could they explain why they never demanded we stopped arming the RAF after these 'accidents' ?

Because a precedent was set when we bombed Dresden.

[sinkov]

"Two fully militarily equipped sovereign nations going to-to-toe is not really the same an one fully operational, heavily armed nation knocking the $hit out of 2.5 million unharmed civilians is it sinkov?"

"Unharmed civilians", whose side are you on mon ami ?

The point I'm making is that Hamas was ensconced in schools, hospitals, civilian apartment blocks and residential houses. It was impossible for Israel to attempt to eradicate the Islamist terrorist scum without there being civilian casualties, and this was a quite deliberate strategy employed by the scum.

In Mariupol, the Ukranian military was not embedded in the civilian infrastructure, there was therefore no necessity for the Russian military to target the civilian population, nevertheless this is what ensued.

"During the Russian siege, the Red Cross described the situation in Mariupol as "apocalyptic" while Ukrainian authorities accused Russia of engineering a major humanitarian crisis in the city.[52][53] Ukrainian officials reported that approximately 25,000 civilians had been killed[44] and that at least 95% of the city had been destroyed during the fighting, primarily by large-scale Russian bombardments.[54] In an official statement, the United Nations confirmed the deaths of 1,348 civilians in Mariupol, but warned that the true death toll was likely thousands higher while also reporting that 90% of the city's residential buildings had been damaged or completely destroyed."

"Based on the analysis of mass graves, Human Rights Watch estimated at least 10,284 people died in Mariupol from March 2022 to February 2023, but assumes that is an undercount.[64]"

"Boychenko announced the city was suffering from a water outage and had experienced massive casualties. He also said Russian forces were preventing civilians from exiting.[112][113]"

"Later on 2 March, Russian artillery targeted a densely populated neighborhood of Mariupol, shelling it for nearly 15 hours. The neighborhood was massively damaged as a result, with deputy mayor Sergiy Orlov reporting that "at least hundreds of people are dead".

"On 4 March, Boychenko stated that the city's supplies were running out, and called for a humanitarian evacuation corridor and Ukrainian military reinforcements.[119][120] He also stated that Russian BM-21 Grads were shelling the city's hospitals and that Mariupol residents no longer had heat, running water, or electricity."

"On 5 March, the Ukrainian government announced its desire to evacuate 200,000 civilians from Mariupol. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) announced that it would act as a guarantor for a new ceasefire to allow for this evacuation.[123] The Red Cross described the situation in Mariupol as "extremely dire".[124] After three days of shelling, a ceasefire was announced to be in effect from 11:00 to 16:00.[125] Civilians began to evacuate from Mariupol along a humanitarian corridor to the city of Zaporizhzhia. As civilians entered the evacuation corridor, Russian forces continued shelling the city, forcing evacuees to turn back."

"On 6 March, the Red Cross announced that a second attempt to evacuate civilians from Mariupol had again failed.[130] Anton Herashchenko, a Ukrainian official, said the second attempt at a humanitarian corridor for civilians in Mariupol ended with a Russian bombardment".

" The Red Cross reported that there were "devastating scenes of human suffering" in Mariupol.[130][131] Later in the morning, Inna Sovsun, a Ukrainian member of parliament, stated that the fuel pipeline that supplies Mariupol was damaged by Russian forces, leaving more than 700,000 people without heat, and suggested that people might freeze to death, as the temperature at the time often fell below 0 °C (32 °F).[132] The bombardment also hit the city's last functioning cellular tower."

"On 9 March, the Associated Press reported that scores of Ukrainian civilians and soldiers were being buried by city workers in a mass grave at one of the city's cemeteries. Russian shelling had hit the cemetery the previous day, interrupting the burials and damaging a wall.[137][138] Later, another attempted ceasefire failed after Orlov reported that Russian soldiers had opened fire on construction workers and evacuation points. Orlov described the city's supply shortage as so severe that residents were melting snow to get water.[139] Later that day, the Mariupol City Council issued a statement that a Russian airstrike had struck and destroyed a maternity ward and children's hospital."

"The Donetsk Regional Drama Theatre, sheltering hundreds of civilians, was hit by a Russian airstrike on 16 March and destroyed.[157] Pavlo Kyrylenko, the governor of Donetsk Oblast, later stated that Russian forces had also targeted the Neptune swimming pool."

"On 20 March, the city council of Mariupol claimed Russian forces had forcefully deported "several thousand" people to camps and remote cities in Russia over the past week."

"On 16 March, the Associated Press (AP) reported that it had documented that many of the dead were "children and mothers" contrary, it said, to Russian government claims that civilians had not been targeted.[315] It also reported that doctors in Mariupol were saying that they were treating "10 injured civilians for every injured Ukrainian soldier."[315]"

"On 12 April, city officials reported that up to 20,000 civilians had been killed.[316] On the same day, the Mayor of the city reported that about 21,000 civilians had been killed.[317] An updated Ukrainian death toll the following month put the number of civilians killed at at least 22,000.[318]"

"On August 29, President of Mariupol Television, volunteer and civil activist Mykola Osychenko said to Dnipro TV that, according to the insider information, 87,000 deaths have been currently documented in morgues in Mariupol. Besides, 26,750 bodies are buried in mass graves, and many more are buried in the yards of the apartment blocks and private houses, or still under the rubble.[319] In early November, Ukraine stated that at least 25,000 civilians had been killed in Mariupol.[44] In late December, based on the discovery of 10,300 new mass graves, the Associated Press estimated that the true death toll may be up to three times that figure.[320] The Greek minority in Ukraine which is concentrated in and around Mariupol was impacted heavily by the fighting. Sartana and Volnovakha, two towns near Mariupol with substantial Greek populations, were hit hard by Russian forces and nearly completely destroyed.[321]"

No mention of Ukranian armed forces in the above mon ami, just the heavily armed Russian Army and Air Force knocking the $hit out of the unarmed civilian population of Mariupol. And as usual, as no Jews were involved, this all occurs without a single comment from you. A spell of head-wobbling is still in order mon ami.

[kritichris]

For what it's worth,what russia is getting away with is obscene. However, as someone who has been pro Israeli for donkeys years what israel is getting away with is worse.

[sinkov]

"Two fully militarily equipped sovereign nations going to-to-toe is not really the same an one fully operational, heavily armed nation knocking the $hit out of 2.5 million unharmed civilians is it sinkov?"

"Unharmed civilians", whose side are you on mon ami ?

The point I'm making is that Hamas was ensconced in schools, hospitals, civilian apartment blocks and residential houses. It was impossible for Israel to attempt to eradicate the Islamist terrorist scum without there being civilian casualties, and this was a quite deliberate strategy employed by the scum.

In Mariupol, the Ukranian military was not embedded in the civilian infrastructure, there was therefore no necessity for the Russian military to target the civilian population, nevertheless this is what ensued.

"During the Russian siege, the Red Cross described the situation in Mariupol as "apocalyptic" while Ukrainian authorities accused Russia of engineering a major humanitarian crisis in the city.[52][53] Ukrainian officials reported that approximately 25,000 civilians had been killed[44] and that at least 95% of the city had been destroyed during the fighting, primarily by large-scale Russian bombardments.[54] In an official statement, the United Nations confirmed the deaths of 1,348 civilians in Mariupol, but warned that the true death toll was likely thousands higher while also reporting that 90% of the city's residential buildings had been damaged or completely destroyed."

"Based on the analysis of mass graves, Human Rights Watch estimated at least 10,284 people died in Mariupol from March 2022 to February 2023, but assumes that is an undercount.[64]"

"Boychenko announced the city was suffering from a water outage and had experienced massive casualties. He also said Russian forces were preventing civilians from exiting.[112][113]"

"Later on 2 March, Russian artillery targeted a densely populated neighborhood of Mariupol, shelling it for nearly 15 hours. The neighborhood was massively damaged as a result, with deputy mayor Sergiy Orlov reporting that "at least hundreds of people are dead".

"On 4 March, Boychenko stated that the city's supplies were running out, and called for a humanitarian evacuation corridor and Ukrainian military reinforcements.[119][120] He also stated that Russian BM-21 Grads were shelling the city's hospitals and that Mariupol residents no longer had heat, running water, or electricity."

"On 5 March, the Ukrainian government announced its desire to evacuate 200,000 civilians from Mariupol. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) announced that it would act as a guarantor for a new ceasefire to allow for this evacuation.[123] The Red Cross described the situation in Mariupol as "extremely dire".[124] After three days of shelling, a ceasefire was announced to be in effect from 11:00 to 16:00.[125] Civilians began to evacuate from Mariupol along a humanitarian corridor to the city of Zaporizhzhia. As civilians entered the evacuation corridor, Russian forces continued shelling the city, forcing evacuees to turn back."

"On 6 March, the Red Cross announced that a second attempt to evacuate civilians from Mariupol had again failed.[130] Anton Herashchenko, a Ukrainian official, said the second attempt at a humanitarian corridor for civilians in Mariupol ended with a Russian bombardment".

" The Red Cross reported that there were "devastating scenes of human suffering" in Mariupol.[130][131] Later in the morning, Inna Sovsun, a Ukrainian member of parliament, stated that the fuel pipeline that supplies Mariupol was damaged by Russian forces, leaving more than 700,000 people without heat, and suggested that people might freeze to death, as the temperature at the time often fell below 0 °C (32 °F).[132] The bombardment also hit the city's last functioning cellular tower."

"On 9 March, the Associated Press reported that scores of Ukrainian civilians and soldiers were being buried by city workers in a mass grave at one of the city's cemeteries. Russian shelling had hit the cemetery the previous day, interrupting the burials and damaging a wall.[137][138] Later, another attempted ceasefire failed after Orlov reported that Russian soldiers had opened fire on construction workers and evacuation points. Orlov described the city's supply shortage as so severe that residents were melting snow to get water.[139] Later that day, the Mariupol City Council issued a statement that a Russian airstrike had struck and destroyed a maternity ward and children's hospital."

"The Donetsk Regional Drama Theatre, sheltering hundreds of civilians, was hit by a Russian airstrike on 16 March and destroyed.[157] Pavlo Kyrylenko, the governor of Donetsk Oblast, later stated that Russian forces had also targeted the Neptune swimming pool."

"On 20 March, the city council of Mariupol claimed Russian forces had forcefully deported "several thousand" people to camps and remote cities in Russia over the past week."

"On 16 March, the Associated Press (AP) reported that it had documented that many of the dead were "children and mothers" contrary, it said, to Russian government claims that civilians had not been targeted.[315] It also reported that doctors in Mariupol were saying that they were treating "10 injured civilians for every injured Ukrainian soldier."[315]"

"On 12 April, city officials reported that up to 20,000 civilians had been killed.[316] On the same day, the Mayor of the city reported that about 21,000 civilians had been killed.[317] An updated Ukrainian death toll the following month put the number of civilians killed at at least 22,000.[318]"

"On August 29, President of Mariupol Television, volunteer and civil activist Mykola Osychenko said to Dnipro TV that, according to the insider information, 87,000 deaths have been currently documented in morgues in Mariupol. Besides, 26,750 bodies are buried in mass graves, and many more are buried in the yards of the apartment blocks and private houses, or still under the rubble.[319] In early November, Ukraine stated that at least 25,000 civilians had been killed in Mariupol.[44] In late December, based on the discovery of 10,300 new mass graves, the Associated Press estimated that the true death toll may be up to three times that figure.[320] The Greek minority in Ukraine which is concentrated in and around Mariupol was impacted heavily by the fighting. Sartana and Volnovakha, two towns near Mariupol with substantial Greek populations, were hit hard by Russian forces and nearly completely destroyed.[321]"

No mention of Ukranian armed forces in the above mon ami, just the heavily armed Russian Army and Air Force knocking the $hit out of the unarmed civilian population of Mariupol. And as usual, as no Jews were involved, this all occurs without a single comment from you. A spell of head-wobbling is still in order mon ami.

[sinkov]

For what it's worth,what russia is getting away with is obscene. However, as someone who has been pro Israeli for donkeys years what israel is getting away with is worse.

Chris, how is the situation in Gaza worse than what is described in Post 42 ?

[sinkov]

Former Labour MP Chris Harris.

"I joined Labour exactly 40 years ago this month and left in 2018 after finally (and belatedly) losing patience at the antisemitism that was being so generously tolerated, not only by the party leadership but by its grassroots."

Ho hum.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Former Labour MP Chris Harris.

"I joined Labour exactly 40 years ago this month and left in 2018 after finally (and belatedly) losing patience at the antisemitism that was being so generously tolerated, not only by the party leadership but by its grassroots."

Ho hum.

I think you ought to ring your mates at Tory Central and ask them to put their own house in order too mon ami...

Alan Duncan the ex Tory MP, who served as a Foreign Office minister under Theresa May, claimed the Conservative Friends of Israel group was “doing the bidding of Netanyahu” and called for two of its prominent members: Lord Polak and Lord Pickles; to be “removed from the House of Lords”.