Jury Service.

[ramAnag]

Are you sure all those Stoke courts were all busy with jury based trials though. I'm not sure how many trials are currently jury based.

The right to a jury trial has its roots in Danelaw I believe and so has been part of a basic human right for over 1000 years. It's therefore odd that a government led by a human rights lawyer and is seemingly dead set on preserving human rights for demonstrable law breakers in illegal immigrants would seek to erode them for the indigenous population to save money. - It's a very Tory sort of action.

Trial by jury is a safeguard against oppression by the state and I don't think it should be weakened. Perhaps tidied up round the edges as regards the process but not the principal which likely also gives a nod to the Magna Carta. I don't think we have the moral authority to change things such as this.

No, I?m not, although I remember being astonished at the number of jurors present on that long ago Monday morning and at the amount of time they spent drinking coffee and watching endless reruns of ?Only Fools and Horses?.

I?m sure we have the ?moral authority? to change something, regardless of whether it has its routes in Danelaw, IF it is no longer fit for purpose in the 21st century.

I don?t know if that?s the case but I do know that some people weren?t fit to judge others imo. Tbh that probably applies to all of us in certain circumstances. I would have serious reservations about my own ability to judge others in something like a computer fraud case for instance while (fortunately in my case) my first case was one involving child abuse which was something I felt relatively expert in working, at the time, in the area of child protection and I was appalled when a fellow juror sidled up to me at the first (and, as it transpired, only break) to suggest ?these little girls you know?there?s no smoke without fire?.

[ramAnag]

Well it seems the outcome is that the number of cases involving juries is going to be significantly reduced. Given the absurd waiting time for some cases to be heard I believe this to be a good thing.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Honestly I'm shocked that someone with your liberal (with a small L) outlook on things would be happy to sacrifice a long standing pillar of justice and human rights at the altar of saving cash. It would have been interesting to have seen your reaction had it been proposed by a Tory government a couple of years ago - but obviously we cannot benchtest that one.

[Geoff Parkstone]

That said juries are not used in Sharia Law so maybe this is all part of a creeping change 😄

[ramAnag]

Honestly I'm shocked that someone with your liberal (with a small L) outlook on things would be happy to sacrifice a long standing pillar of justice and human rights at the altar of saving cash. It would have been interesting to have seen your reaction had it been proposed by a Tory government a couple of years ago - but obviously we cannot benchtest that one.

Not just the ‘altar of saving cash’, GP, but in the name of efficiency. I don’t think it’s a political decision so what the Tories would have done isn’t really relevant. My opinion would have been the same and just because something is ‘long standing’ doesn’t make it fit for purpose.

[Geoff Parkstone]

...nor does it make it unfit

[ramAnag]

...nor does it make it unfit

Of course not, but when cases are taking as long as they currently are to come to court…something’s wrong and when you’vd sat on a jury and been three hours into a case only to have a fellow member stick their hand up to say that they know one of the principle witnesses, leading to the case having to be abandoned and another 12 jurors sworn in, you have a different perspective.

[Andy_Faber]

Of course not, but when cases are taking as long as they currently are to come to court?something?s wrong and when you?vd sat on a jury and been three hours into a case only to have a fellow member stick their hand up to say that they know one of the principle witnesses, leading to the case having to be abandoned and another 12 jurors sworn in, you have a different perspective.

Lamy's comments this morning on Breakfast are worrying to me, he went off on one about black victims for no clear reason which suggests to me he can't get race out of his mind even on such an important matter as this

[Geoff Parkstone]

Of course not, but when cases are taking as long as they currently are to come to court…something’s wrong and when you’vd sat on a jury and been three hours into a case only to have a fellow member stick their hand up to say that they know one of the principle witnesses, leading to the case having to be abandoned and another 12 jurors sworn in, you have a different perspective.

Yes perhaps the best idea might be to have a fit and proper juror test! Do they not talk you through these things on day 1 of your fortnight?

[ramAnag]

Yes perhaps the best idea might be to have a fit and proper juror test! Do they not talk you through these things on day 1 of your fortnight?

As far as I recall we weren’t advised about anything other than how to claim for mileage and food.
Tbf, nobody was at fault. Again, as memory serves, it was a GBH charge and obviously the name of the defendant was known but little else.
After the better part of half a day a policeman was called to give evidence who transpired to be a fellow rugby club member and team mate of one of the jurors. He immediately raised his hand. The case was paused, the judge considered the situation and the hearing was postponed…so 24 jurors (and attendant expenses) for a relatively straightforward - admittedly only on the evidence we did hear - case. Don’t know how often it happens but I doubt it’s particularly uncommon.

[Ram Pant]

There is a huge backlog of cases. The jury issues are part of the cause. Do defendants get given the choice or does the system decide what goes to jury trial?

If it's the system, why not try giving the defendant a choice with maybe an incentive of a 10% to 20% reduction in sentence?

If they do go juryless, I'd look to have more than one judge/magistrate presiding. 5 would be overkill but 3 feels about right.