OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[roger_ramjet]

Bizarre - works some of the time and doesnt others

[Trickytreesreds]

Actually, as I remember it, you were rather more persistent than just simply swearing at Rats...but you've redeemed yourself by quoting from one of the finest of albums.
I'm not sure an awful lot has been said that would warrant a red card...but I'll vote for you as a replacement mod...especially if you put us all up at Ramjet Towers for AF's reaquaintance with Curved Air at some church hall in your neck of the woods...or did you miss that one?
Could be fun to actually match real personalities to their forum personas...we could bring Tricky...or there again...

P.S. I like the Welsh...they don't seem to hate us as much as the Scots.

Ok, to cool this down a bit. I apologise.

Ramanag, personally I have nothing against you.
I get irate on this topic, when I see the same Clegg/Abbott/Cameron/Osborn type responses to the general public.
"we're thick, don't know anything,shouldn't have an opinion"
Racist/Xenophobe/Bigot/lower intelligence, to belittle and batter into line. Corbyns army are good at it.

I'm patriotic and see enough to scare the living daylights out of me with the EU. I do not want a superstate, nor do I want open borders and someone else deciding whats best for the UK population. In effect, it's what 52% of the voting population said.

To be slapped down on that vote, is quite frankly garbage and a stain on democracy.
Yes my tone has been offensive, I apologise for that, but is it any more offensive than the above labels?

Your comment about the Scots/Welsh amused me. I have Scottish relatives. In the main, the Jocks actually want union more than the Welsh. In fact the Welsh, north/south wise hate each other more.

PS, as a moderator. May I just say that folks seem to not understand the new rules.
For a moderator to take action, is very serious.
If you incur a ban, it is global and permanent. Do you really want a system that is so ruthless. Your mods may be keeping a low profile, rather be an executioner. Think about it.

[ramAnag]

Ok, to cool this down a bit. I apologise.

Ramanag, personally I have nothing against you.
I get irate on this topic, when I see the same Clegg/Abbott/Cameron/Osborn type responses to the general public.
"we're thick, don't know anything,shouldn't have an opinion"
Racist/Xenophobe/Bigot/lower intelligence, to belittle and batter into line. Corbyns army are good at it.

I'm patriotic and see enough to scare the living daylights out of me with the EU. I do not want a superstate, nor do I want open borders and someone else deciding whats best for the UK population. In effect, it's what 52% of the voting population said.

To be slapped down on that vote, is quite frankly garbage and a stain on democracy.
Yes my tone has been offensive, I apologise for that, but is it any more offensive than the above labels?

Your comment about the Scots/Welsh amused me. I have Scottish relatives. In the main, the Jocks actually want union more than the Welsh. In fact the Welsh, north/south wise hate each other more.

PS, as a moderator. May I just say that folks seem to not understand the new rules.
For a moderator to take action, is very serious.
If you incur a ban, it is global and permanent. Do you really want a system that is so ruthless. Your mods may be keeping a low profile, rather be an executioner. Think about it.

With all due respect, to say 'in effect, it's what 52% of the voting population said' is misleading at best. Just 37% of those entitled to vote were in favour of 'Brexit' and many of them were voting that way as a protest against immigration, Londoncentric politics, the establishment and unwieldy bureaucracy. That, imo, is the problem...we shouldn't, of course, ignore that vote but the nation is divided precisely because we are all now being led in a direction that, whichever way you look at it, 63% of the electorate haven't actually voted for.
Other than that congratulations on putting Cameron and Osborn in the same category as Diane Abbott...bet that hasn't happened very often before.

[Trickytreesreds]

With all due respect, to say 'in effect, it's what 52% of the voting population said' is misleading at best. Just 37% of those entitled to vote were in favour of 'Brexit' and many of them were voting that way as a protest against immigration, Londoncentric politics, the establishment and unwieldy bureaucracy. That, imo, is the problem...we shouldn't, of course, ignore that vote but the nation is divided precisely because we are all now being led in a direction that, whichever way you look at it, 63% of the electorate haven't actually voted for.
Other than that congratulations on putting Cameron and Osborn in the same category as Diane Abbott...bet that hasn't happened very often before.

Ramanag, 52% was the result of those that could be BOTHERED to vote.
Every election is the same.

To claim those that didn't vote in the %, even though they had the option is lame.
The European elections is classic of this. UKIP have the majority, because most folks couldn't be arsed to vote.
That's tough **** really. You had your choice and failed.
I loved some of the after voting interviews. Students screaming that us "oldies" had robbed their future. Then it turns out they hadn't voted at all.

C'est la vie and **** off. Now you understand democracy.

[ramAnag]

Ramanag, 52% was the result of those that could be BOTHERED to vote.
Every election is the same.

To claim those that didn't vote in the %, even though they had the option is lame.
The European elections is classic of this. UKIP have the majority, because most folks couldn't be arsed to vote.
That's tough **** really. You had your choice and failed.
I loved some of the after voting interviews. Students screaming that us "oldies" had robbed their future. Then it turns out they hadn't voted at all.

C'est la vie and **** off. Now you understand democracy.

Going round in circles I'm afraid. I do take your point about people not 'bothering' but students are notorious for having difficulty in knowing whether to join the electoral role at home or their college base. I'm not in any way claiming that all the 63% who didn't vote for Brexit were all committed 'Remainers' however you've got a strange view of democracy if you really think that 37% can equate to a credible majority in leading us down a path with such enormous implications for the future.

[Ram59]

Who knows what the future will be if we remain in the eu. What we have now, is nothing like what was voted for in the seventies. How much further will the integration go?

It's been said on this forum that it was obvious that joining the eec would lead to what we have now. Not so, Tony Benn was against joining the eec, saying it would lead to the state of affairs that exist now. He was ridiculed by those wishing to join.

Similar arguments were thrown around about joining the Euro, isolation, not having a voice etc. Can you find anyone who now thinks we should have joined the Euro?

[Andy_Faber]

Who knows what the future will be if we remain in the eu. What we have now, is nothing like what was voted for in the seventies. How much further will the integration go?

It's been said on this forum that it was obvious that joining the eec would lead to what we have now. Not so, Tony Benn was against joining the eec, saying it would lead to the state of affairs that exist now. He was ridiculed by those wishing to join.

Similar arguments were thrown around about joining the Euro, isolation, not having a voice etc. Can you find anyone who now thinks we should have joined the Euro?

I tell you what, there is actually no hope for us. We sign someone on loan with a remotely non-British sounding name and I've seen it spelled (spelt?) FOUR different ways on this forum so far....

[Andy_Faber]

Now the dust has settled and everyone has now excepted Brexit, Who would you like to be our next Prime Minister, I know most folk would want Nigel Farage but at the moment that's not possible.

If that's a serious question, I'm fine with the one we have, and if we have an election my political leanings such as they are incline me to wanting a repeat of either the current parliament (small conservative majority with some rebels in the mix) or a conservative-dominant coalition with a strong coalition partner to keep them 'honest' (don't laugh). I'd also like (and I think this will happen) for labour to lose lots of seats, pref to the lib dems and UKIP in equal number, as I consider labour not just to be a shambles but a bigger danger to the country than Brexit. A large conservative majority would defo NOT be good form though.

There's my manifesto, now where's that bloody rosette?

[ramAnag]

Wow...congratulations on taking over six months to answer the question AF.
It'll come as no surprise that we see things differently, but actually oddly have much in common. Obviously I'd prefer a slightly more left of centre government, although I do agree the current Labour leadership is not fit for purpose, and I would prefer there to be absolutely no UKIP representatives because, imo, they represent nothing more than the regressive voice of disharmony.
I loath the Tory right and feel that Fox, Gove, Johnson and Duncan Smith were seen in their true objectionable colours in the aftermath of Brexit however I agree with you about the need for both constructive opposition and cooperation, preferably in the form of a coalition of sensible Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, and one nation Tories possibly, but only possibly, led by Keir Starmer.

[roger_ramjet]

Thats Sir to you Mr Gaana

[Trickytreesreds]

Wow...congratulations on taking over six months to answer the question AF.
It'll come as no surprise that we see things differently, but actually oddly have much in common. Obviously I'd prefer a slightly more left of centre government, although I do agree the current Labour leadership is not fit for purpose, and I would prefer there to be absolutely no UKIP representatives because, imo, they represent nothing more than the regressive voice of disharmony.
I loath the Tory right and feel that Fox, Gove, Johnson and Duncan Smith were seen in their true objectionable colours in the aftermath of Brexit however I agree with you about the need for both constructive opposition and cooperation, preferably in the form of a coalition of sensible Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, and one nation Tories possibly, but only possibly, led by Keir Starmer.

Wow Ramanag, Labour/Lib dems/Greens??? Coalition . That's a brilliant government of lying/spineless/pacifistic money spenders. Before you say it, I'm not an out and out Tory either. I just feel that none of those parties have ANYTHING to offer the public at the moment. Until the Labour party gets rid of Corbyn/Abbott/Thornberry etc. It has as much chance of election as I do of getting in Kylies pants. Being the supposed opposition, that's quite upsetting.
If May balls up the Brexit, then watch UKIP become the opposition.
Rocky road ahead and if the UK wasn't in a political storm before, it will be.

[ramAnag]

Wow Ramanag, Labour/Lib dems/Greens??? Coalition . That's a brilliant government of lying/spineless/pacifistic money spenders. Before you say it, I'm not an out and out Tory either. I just feel that none of those parties have ANYTHING to offer the public at the moment. Until the Labour party gets rid of Corbyn/Abbott/Thornberry etc. It has as much chance of election as I do of getting in Kylies pants. Being the supposed opposition, that's quite upsetting.
If May balls up the Brexit, then watch UKIP become the opposition.
Rocky road ahead and if the UK wasn't in a political storm before, it will be.

Perhaps my key words were 'constructive', 'cooperation', 'sensible' and 'one nation'. Perhaps yours are 'regressive and 'disharmony'. You do so enjoy the language of 'storms' and 'flames' and where have I ever defended Corbyn or Abbott?

[Andy_Faber]

Wow...congratulations on taking over six months to answer the question AF.
It'll come as no surprise that we see things differently, but actually oddly have much in common. Obviously I'd prefer a slightly more left of centre government, although I do agree the current Labour leadership is not fit for purpose, and I would prefer there to be absolutely no UKIP representatives because, imo, they represent nothing more than the regressive voice of disharmony.
I loath the Tory right and feel that Fox, Gove, Johnson and Duncan Smith were seen in their true objectionable colours in the aftermath of Brexit however I agree with you about the need for both constructive opposition and cooperation, preferably in the form of a coalition of sensible Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, and one nation Tories possibly, but only possibly, led by Keir Starmer.

I'm not sure I was saying a SLIGHTLY right of centre govt, I meant solidly (not extremely) right but with an effective brake/conscience. I don't believe that slightly left or right provides the friction that gets things done.

IMO the rise of UKIP is a fairly direct result of the disastrous immigration and other way-too-PC policies of 90s/00s labour so they have reaped what they sowed. Keir Starmer does look a likely lad for the future though, and I bet he hasn't got overgrown bloody roses in his front garden (an irrational gripe of mine against Corbyn!)

Edit: Sowed?

[swaledale]

Please dont try to defend the indefensible Mangara. In the good old days of a moderated board Swale would have been carded for those personal insults.

This thread has teetered along the edge of the unnacceptable but Swale has pushed it over the edge: not so much by his assault on Tricky who many might suggest deserves it but the attack on mistaram was unwarranted and not on.

If any mods do read this perhaps they coul act?

You can **** off as well Rog, your so far up your arse you can't even see the reality for the ****e you spout! I realise on a football forum that a large percentage of the posters would be total ****s I didn't realise how stupid though! anyone who agrees with what that areshole Tricky posts is not anybody I wish to converse with over the intent or anywhere else, anyway your such clued up guys that I will sit back and laugh when it all turns to ****e!

[roger_ramjet]

ooh err Missus, compounding the personal attacks sin! At least its brown and warm up here, rather than in the cold and bleak future that you perceive!

Now whats that little triangle thing down here in the corner for? Hmmmmm