OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Swale, I was driving between my house and Bakewell a couple of mornings ago...beautiful morning, wonderful landscape when suddenly I passed a rusted and burned out car with the words ‘F*** Brexit’ sprayed on the side.
Of course I agree entirely with the message but deplore the ‘medium’...not only is it unnecessarily abusive but it is also totally unhelpful to those who want to use reason to defeat the Brexit argument.
Can’t help feeling you are the forum equivalent of that trashed car. I agree with your every word in post #3688 and the point is brilliantly made, but a post later you are abusing ‘Amster and accusing him of ‘astounding ignorance’...for what? Putting forward an alternative argument based on something that I, at least, don’t have the same knowledge of?
You and I may agree about virtually everything in relation to Brexit and Trump...I’ll concede that you even have a better understanding of the former but surely logic and reason are the way to win, not bullying abuse which just alienates you and your opinions.
Anyway...got to go...probably about to break my rules and shout abuse at Aaron Banks on the Andrew Marr programme!

[Andy_Faber]

burned out car with the words ‘F*** Brexit’ sprayed on the side. is also totally unhelpful to those who want to use reason to defeat the Brexit argument.

Very good comment RA, and not just as a Swale slapdown. the childish 'Boo hoo its not fair' Remain versus 'Its my ball and you're not playing' of Leave has achieved nothing but more and more division since 2016. Its become so, so difficult to have a sensible, open-minded discussion on this, bitterness, narrow mindedness and sloganeering are well and truly in vogue. Incidentally, Aaron Banks may be an ar*ehole but remember this is UK where its innocent until proven guilty...

[Andy_Faber]

Indeed just as Hitler recognised that firm action needed to be taken to cure Germanys economic ills and right the "wrongs" of WW!!

Lets be clear all decent intelligent and sane thinking people despise Trump - those that say well he is an odious man but hey he gets things done that we think ought to be done, are dangerous people who would go along with a proposition which was yes these Christian zealots are bigoted, racist, ***ist, spew out a lot of crap, undertake the odd tax fraud but by gum they have turned the country's economy around! Mm so exactly where do you draw the line between - basically he is a lying criminal dangerous scumbag who uses peoples base fears to support his agenda, but he is an Ok guy cos he does some good things? Again I believe Hitler built good motorways, re*****ised the economy and made Germany feel good about itself, just a shame a few million people had to die really.

Comparing anything/anyone to Hitler is the ultimate sign of desperation in any discussion, and only adds credence to your slapdown from RA earlier on this page.

[ramAnag]

Comparing anything/anyone to Hitler is the ultimate sign of desperation in any discussion, and only adds credence to your slapdown from RA earlier on this page.

I disagree Andy...the comparison is totally valid. Back in the thirties the only thing Hitler had going for him was the ability to revive a flagging economy but at the cost of complete abdication of any moral responsibility. In that respect Trump is exactly the same.
I’m also not trying to ‘slap down’ anyone. Swale is my greatest, possibly only, ally on here as regards Brexit...I just don’t think it helps to see everyone who disagrees or recognises another side of things as the ‘enemy’. Logic and wit is what will win the argument. Swale, imo, has plenty of both but all too often resorts to the self defeating bludgeon.
Just my opinion as is the idea that Aaron Banks came across as a totally charmless, ego driven and dishonest chancer this morning on Andrew Marr. The last thing we need as an addition to the current political scene...but probably what we deserve.

[Andy_Faber]

I disagree Andy...the comparison is totally valid. Back in the thirties the only thing Hitler had going for him was the ability to revive a flagging economy but at the cost of complete abdication of any moral responsibility. In that respect Trump is exactly the same.
I’m also not trying to ‘slap down’ anyone. Swale is my greatest, possibly only, ally on here as regards Brexit...I just don’t think it helps to see everyone who disagrees or recognises another side of things as the ‘enemy’. Logic and wit is what will win the argument. Swale, imo, has plenty of both but all too often resorts to the self defeating bludgeon.
Just my opinion as is the idea that Aaron Banks came across as a totally charmless, ego driven and dishonest chancer this morning on Andrew Marr. The last thing we need as an addition to the current political scene...but probably what we deserve.

We'll have to agree to differ on the Hitler one, IMO its just too easy a hit used by people who, to quote you, are happy to 'resort to self defeating bludgeon'.

No disagreement on the Banks thing, regretably being charmless and ego driven is not currently a criminal offence.

[ramAnag]

We'll have to agree to differ on the Hitler one, IMO its just too easy a hit used by people who, to quote you, are happy to 'resort to self defeating bludgeon'.

No disagreement on the Banks thing, regretably being charmless and ego driven is not currently a criminal offence.

You’re right of course - about Banks - but the inability to provide a direct answer, the desire to ‘muddy the waters’ and go off at every possible tangent suggests to me...someone with something to hide. But then I suppose it would...I despise the chap.

[Trickytreesreds]

Banks, is a very unlikebale man, without doubt.
But he is the latest witch hunt than remainers are focusing on, in order to over turn Brexit.

It still escapes me, how Cameron got away with plugging Remain with £9 m of public money. It wasn't part of the debate budgets and as such, lets remain off the hook. However, after reading it again (i sent mine back to number 10 in disgust). I now believe it helped the Leave point of view. HE TOOK THE NATION FOR IDIOTS AND TRIED TO MANIPULATE IT.

I t also blew away most of the remain squealing points, of you" didn;t know what you was voting for"

We did and Cameron spelled it out.
It's all there and Leave still lost.

The environment secretary, Liz Truss, said: “The document makes clear why EU membership brings economic security, peace and stability. It also sets out that, if the UK voted to leave, the resulting economic shock would put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods.”

Time for some respect from certain parties.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/06/cameron-to-push-case-remain-eu-with-9m-taxpayer-funded-publicity-blitz

[ramAnag]

Banks, is a very unlikebale man, without doubt.
But he is the latest witch hunt than remainers are focusing on, in order to over turn Brexit.

It still escapes me, how Cameron got away with plugging Remain with £9 m of public money. It wasn't part of the debate budgets and as such, lets remain off the hook. However, after reading it again (i sent mine back to number 10 in disgust). I now believe it helped the Leave point of view. HE TOOK THE NATION FOR IDIOTS AND TRIED TO MANIPULATE IT.

I t also blew away most of the remain squealing points, of you" didn;t know what you was voting for"

We did and Cameron spelled it out.
It's all there and Leave still lost.

The environment secretary, Liz Truss, said: “The document makes clear why EU membership brings economic security, peace and stability. It also sets out that, if the UK voted to leave, the resulting economic shock would put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods.”

Time for some respect from certain parties.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ublicity-blitz

Fair enough Tricky, I remember being less than comfortable with dodgy Dave spending so much public money on the Remain campaign.
It wasn’t illegal though, it maybe should have been, but apparently it wasn’t.
Without pre-judging the, in your own words, ‘very unlikeable’ Aaron Banks, what he is accused of actually is illegal and therein lies the difference.
He isn’t the latest ‘witch hunt’ at all then...questions have been being asked for a long time and it is a question of legality.

[Andy_Faber]

Fair enough Tricky, I remember being less than comfortable with dodgy Dave spending so much public money on the Remain campaign.
It wasn’t illegal though, it maybe should have been, but apparently it wasn’t.
Without pre-judging the, in your own words, ‘very unlikeable’ Aaron Banks, what he is accused of actually is illegal and therein lies the difference.
He isn’t the latest ‘witch hunt’ at all then...questions have been being asked for a long time and it is a question of legality.

...although, in Banks' defence, he didn't unnecessarily call a nation-splitting referendum, which morally was a bigger crime than where a few mill came from, IMO

[MadAmster]

We did and Cameron spelled it out.
It's all there and Leave still lost.

It must be me as I think that leave didn't lose which is why Brexit is only 5 months away.............

[ramAnag]

...although, in Banks' defence, he didn't unnecessarily call a nation-splitting referendum, which morally was a bigger crime than where a few mill came from, IMO

He didn’t...because his only power is his wealth...he is however one of the most dangerously divisive individuals in the country.

[MadAmster]

This might muddy the waters somewhat. Investigation into the Aaron Banks £8M donation to the Brexit cause. There is doubt, also raised last Sunday by Marr on his show, that Banks hasn't yet been able to clear up to anybody's satisfaction but his own, it would seem.

The piece is from iNews and they are deemed to be a slightly left of centre news source of good reliability. If true, this could lead to the referendum being declared null and void........

Enjoy....... https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/...5GVN66TaJrRXMM

[ramAnag]

This might muddy the waters somewhat. Investigation into the Aaron Banks £8M donation to the Brexit cause. There is doubt, also raised last Sunday by Marr on his show, that Banks hasn't yet been able to clear up to anybody's satisfaction but his own, it would seem.

The piece is from iNews and they are deemed to be a slightly left of centre news source of good reliability. If true, this could lead to the referendum being declared null and void........

Enjoy....... https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/...5GVN66TaJrRXMM

‘Enjoy’...I did! Ta MA.

[swaledale]

Swale, I was driving between my house and Bakewell a couple of mornings ago...beautiful morning, wonderful landscape when suddenly I passed a rusted and burned out car with the words ‘F*** Brexit’ sprayed on the side.
Of course I agree entirely with the message but deplore the ‘medium’...not only is it unnecessarily abusive but it is also totally unhelpful to those who want to use reason to defeat the Brexit argument.
Can’t help feeling you are the forum equivalent of that trashed car. I agree with your every word in post #3688 and the point is brilliantly made, but a post later you are abusing ‘Amster and accusing him of ‘astounding ignorance’...for what? Putting forward an alternative argument based on something that I, at least, don’t have the same knowledge of?
You and I may agree about virtually everything in relation to Brexit and Trump...I’ll concede that you even have a better understanding of the former but surely logic and reason are the way to win, not bullying abuse which just alienates you and your opinions.
Anyway...got to go...probably about to break my rules and shout abuse at Aaron Banks on the Andrew Marr programme!

Ah but your eminently reasonable RA, whereas I'm just astounded by the ignorance thats shown and I have no patience for it - don't really give a flying **** if that alienates people on here or elsewhere and lets face it this Forum is basically a bunch of clueless blokes posting opinions. - I simply loved the idiot the reckoned that utter **** Tricky had bested me - not because his posts had any facts, but because he was able to spew endless amounts of falsehoods, lies and bigotted rubbish - classic!

MA's ignorance overlooks the simple fact that a no deal brexit would be an economic disaster for this country and its not a simple case of lowering prices to reduce the effect of tariffs - cars and wine are a trifle compared to the costs to the Uk's ability to trade in financial services, the decimation of whats left of manufacuring industry, the crippling effect that cheap unregulated food imports on uk farmers, I could go on but hey as we all know if your firmly in the Brexit camp then inconvenient truths are ignored, until the day of reckoning comes - but we have already lost 17% in economic activity since the vote - these things are slow and insidious, by the time people notice it will be too late.

Anyway I'm certain that one of two things will happen - we will finish up in the customs union and single market for a never ending transition period or there will be a second referendum, which given that a damn sight more than 37% will vote will be heavily in favour of remaining in the EU.

[mistaram]

Ah but your eminently reasonable RA, whereas I'm just astounded by the ignorance thats shown and I
have no patience for it - don't really give a flying **** if that alienates people on here or elsewhere and lets face it this Forum is basically a bunch of clueless blokes posting opinions. - I simply loved the idiot the reckoned that utter **** Tricky had bested me - not because his posts had any facts, but because he was able to spew endless amounts of falsehoods, lies and bigotted rubbish - classic!

MA's ignorance overlooks the simple fact that a no deal brexit would be an economic disaster for this country and its not a simple case of lowering prices to reduce the effect of tariffs - cars and wine are a trifle compared to the costs to the Uk's ability to trade in financial services, the decimation of whats left of manufacuring industry, the crippling effect that cheap unregulated food imports on uk farmers, I could go on but hey as we all know if your firmly in the Brexit camp then inconvenient truths are ignored, until the day of reckoning comes - but we have already lost 17% in economic activity since the vote - these things are slow and insidious, by the time people notice it will be too late.

Anyway I'm certain that one of two things will happen - we will finish up in the customs union and single market for a never ending transition period or there will be a second referendum, which given that a damn sight more than 37% will vote will be heavily in favour of remaining in the EU.

" Forum is basically a bunch of clueless blokes posting opinions " Yes true especially you