OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Actually I don't have any such stories, Dad too young, Granddad too old

[Manofpride]

And that's the French being French!!!

[ramAnag]

And that's the French being French!!!

Or perhaps a classic example of le petit Anglais.

Jo Brand and Carrefour in the same week...manna from heaven for some.

[Manofpride]

As a country we are not liked by many including the French which is why I can't understand why everyone want's to live here, they do like our money though! I'm just hoping they don't get their grubby little hands on that 39 billion, unless of course they give us a better deal!

[ramAnag]

We used to be MoP...been to France many, many times and I think I’ve met one objectionable anti-Brit and that was about fifteen years ago.
In my experience the same is true of Italy, Germany, Portugal, Holland and Spain where I’ve always been made to feel very welcome.

I’m not sure what your experience of France is...or other European nations, but the worst behaviour I’ve ever seen in Europe has come from the English, whether that be Newcastle fans taking over Bruges or grumpy old folk repeatedly shouting ‘milk...I want milk’ because they can’t be bothered to learn a few basic and predictable phrases.

Again in my experience, if you make a little bit of effort you’ll be rewarded with a welcome...if you adopt an elitist ‘Jonny Foreigner’ approach - aka the Brexiteer mindset - you’ll reap what you sow. If we’re ‘not liked by many’ it’s something we’ve brought on ourselves imo.

[AdiSalisbury]

As a country we are not liked by many including the French which is why I can't understand why everyone want's to live here, they do like our money though! I'm just hoping they don't get their grubby little hands on that 39 billion, unless of course they give us a better deal!

Disagree, other than when I visited Estonia I've never met any anti English person. Except in England. Lots of English people hate us being English. Fueled by left wing media and Russian propaganda.

[Manofpride]

Fact! Nice to your face only, we are not liked do you ever watch the Eurovision song contest!

[MadAmster]

We had our honeymoon in Paris. We were looking at which boat trip to book on the Seine and were conversing in Dutch. When I tried to ask a question I was ignored. I immediately knew why. A quick "Mademoiselle, ma femme est hollandaise et je suis anglais" led to us being helped very politely....... she thought we were German.......

I do think that the French "anti-English" stance is quite true at government levels. Probably because the UK says what it is going to do and then does exactly what it said. The French don't get that at all.

[ramAnag]

Fact! Nice to your face only, we are not liked do you ever watch the Eurovision song contest!

No! Well not since Sandie Shaw won when I was about twelve.

Kind of proves my point though...we used to be liked but countries, like people, have to take responsibility for why attitudes towards them change.

Your ‘fact’ is absolutely not a fact is it? It might be your experience...it certainly isn’t mine and the idea that those pesky Europeans are stabbing us in the back as soon as we look away just smacks of Brexiteer paranoia. Where’s your evidence?

Interesting example ‘Amster, which supports my theory and casts doubt over the notion of this French/German EU conspiracy so beloved of Brexit supporters.
I would question the notion that British politicians do as they say though. When was the last time that happened? We even have a prospective PM who won’t debate or answer any questions.

[MadAmster]

Interesting example ‘Amster, which supports my theory and casts doubt over the notion of this French/German EU conspiracy so beloved of Brexit supporters.
I would question the notion that British politicians do as they say though. When was the last time that happened? We even have a prospective PM who won’t debate or answer any questions.

It has always been my contention that the Common Market/EU is run BY the French and Germans FOR the French and Germans. I point to the way the EU/CM policies have been far from disadvantageous to both countries, the French especially in the form of grants etc and the Germans in how EU policy seems to help their economy.

The French use the CAP and the CFP to avoid having to invest in innovation. The CAP as it helps thousands of French farmers to, basically, do absolutely nothing but keep on getting their annual subsidy for doing exactly nothing. I would, and so would many EU countries, change the CAP. I would INCREASE the current subsidy but give it a limited life span of between 5 and 10 years. During that time the farmers would be expected to try other uses for the land in order to generate income. Once that period has expired, that's it. If they are still unable to make a living off the use of their land, the subsidies stop, permanently and they can then support themselves which will probably entail their selling the land to someone who will make profitable use of it. The CFP as countries have signed it and then ignore it, catching as much as they want. The French, as with their agriculture, refuse to modernise. A lot of fish gets thrown back into the sea, dead, because they are the wrong type of fish. Dutch fishermen invested in innovation and came up with pulse fishing which, as the name says, sends out a pulse that causes fish to "jump" into their nets. It somehow only gets the fish they want of the right size and species, the nets are above the sea bed so there is no damage to the sea floor as there is with the old fashioned trawl nets as used by the French amongst others. Pulse fishing is better for fish stocks, better for the sea bed. The French managed to get pulse fishing banned........

Who benefitted from the forced selling off of Greek infrastructure such as harbours in order to pay off some of the debt? A debt that increased something like tenfold thanks to the "rescue package". It was German financiers that bought it up on the cheap.

As for individual British politicians, I agree with you, however, as with the CAP, the CFP and other "deals" signed by the UK Government, once signed and accepted the UK sticks to it. Others don't.

[ramAnag]

It has always been my contention that the Common Market/EU is run BY the French and Germans FOR the French and Germans. I point to the way the EU/CM policies have been far from disadvantageous to both countries, the French especially in the form of grants etc and the Germans in how EU policy seems to help their economy.

The French use the CAP and the CFP to avoid having to invest in innovation. The CAP as it helps thousands of French farmers to, basically, do absolutely nothing but keep on getting their annual subsidy for doing exactly nothing. I would, and so would many EU countries, change the CAP. I would INCREASE the current subsidy but give it a limited life span of between 5 and 10 years. During that time the farmers would be expected to try other uses for the land in order to generate income. Once that period has expired, that's it. If they are still unable to make a living off the use of their land, the subsidies stop, permanently and they can then support themselves which will probably entail their selling the land to someone who will make profitable use of it. The CFP as countries have signed it and then ignore it, catching as much as they want. The French, as with their agriculture, refuse to modernise. A lot of fish gets thrown back into the sea, dead, because they are the wrong type of fish. Dutch fishermen invested in innovation and came up with pulse fishing which, as the name says, sends out a pulse that causes fish to "jump" into their nets. It somehow only gets the fish they want of the right size and species, the nets are above the sea bed so there is no damage to the sea floor as there is with the old fashioned trawl nets as used by the French amongst others. Pulse fishing is better for fish stocks, better for the sea bed. The French managed to get pulse fishing banned........

Who benefitted from the forced selling off of Greek infrastructure such as harbours in order to pay off some of the debt? A debt that increased something like tenfold thanks to the "rescue package". It was German financiers that bought it up on the cheap.

As for individual British politicians, I agree with you, however, as with the CAP, the CFP and other "deals" signed by the UK Government, once signed and accepted the UK sticks to it. Others don't.

You demonstrate a better informed and more intelligent response as regards the EU than many, MA and I’m not going to argue.

We too have benefited from the grants you speak of but there is much that could be improved about the EU and I have never suggested otherwise.

To come full circle, yet again, though...surely we must all understand that, just as with any other ‘club’, once you leave and start ‘slagging off’ the other members and previous ‘allies’ then you begin to make yourself unpopular.

As a nation we can ill afford to do that. We were a valued member of the EU...one of the biggest ‘players’...far better to remain in then and bring about constructive change than to run off with our tail between our legs, trying only to think of ways to minimise the wholly avoidable damage.

[Geoff Parkstone]

we were indeed "valued" as we were one of a small band of "net payers in", along with the Dutch and Krauts.

[MadAmster]

Upon refelction, I think we can sum up the EU thus:

As a plan, on paper, it looked like a damned good idea. However, the planners always planned to have it turn into a US of E but they didn't dare say such as they would have been laughed at and out of a job. The problem with good plans on paper is that they get actioned by people and the end product never looks like the original plan. I hope this visual explains what I mean............

[Andy_Faber]

Disagree, other than when I visited Estonia I've never met any anti English person. Except in England. Lots of English people hate us being English. Fueled by left wing media and Russian propaganda.

ABSOLUTELY spot on Adi, there are few things that really p*** me off in life, but the unfathomable slagging off of England and all things English by English folk is one, and one I'll take direct action on it when I hear it (ironically I learned to do that from Mrs F, a Scot). As for abroad, I don't have a view on nations I've not visited or only visited as a tourist, but in Spain, Greece, Turkey Italy and Germany, apart from mild amusement at the 'where's my ketchup' brigade, I've never come across any animosity towards English/Brits, apart from when someone has an issue with all foreigners (or life itself). IMO its another fallacy spun by the anti-English English.

The French issue (confirmed my French friends) is not with The English as such, but with the English language, but hey, c'est la vie

[ramAnag]

ABSOLUTELY spot on Adi, there are few things that really p*** me off in life, but the unfathomable slagging off of England and all things English by English folk is one, and one I'll take direct action on it when I hear it (ironically I learned to do that from Mrs F, a Scot). As for abroad, I don't have a view on nations I've not visited or only visited as a tourist, but in Spain, Greece, Turkey Italy and Germany, apart from mild amusement at the 'where's my ketchup' brigade, I've never come across any animosity towards English/Brits, apart from when someone has an issue with all foreigners (or life itself). IMO its another fallacy spun by the anti-English English.

The French issue (confirmed my French friends) is not with The English as such, but with the English language, but hey, c'est la vie

I honestly have no idea what you and Adi are talking about.
I’ve been embarrassed by a certain type of ‘Englishman abroad’ attitude where a minority seem to believe they’re doing Europeans a favour by refusing to attempt anything other than an ever louder form of English, but who are these ‘English folk slagging off England and all things English’?
Not something I’ve ever come across although anti English hostility from the Scots - and to a lesser extent some Welsh - seems quite commonplace. Some Scots in particular seem particularly keen on keeping the spirit of Bonnie Prince Charlie alive and appear to have never got over Culloden.