OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Interesting you mention EU immigration again always seems to be at the forefront of your thinking

No MR I gave you a reply to your quote.
Anyone that thinks immigration isn't part of this, is a liar.
But it isn't the be all and end all.

You mentioned London, I gave you an interpretation of his comments.
I agree with him, that immigration should be regulated. I nor he never said stop it.
In fact the EU discriminates against people outside the EU.
A doctor from Canada, has a lot harder entry route, than a Romanian car washer.

For me, you have to tackle the EU control issue of sovereignty, before you can fix on anything else.
You and I know what the plan is and the more control over your decisions is syphoned off. The less you get of changing anything.

That's it, I'm done.
I said I had finished with this and have only replied out of curtosy.
You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Now can we get on with talking about how much better Forest are, now O'Neill has gone,

[mistaram]

We will have to beg to differ I've just had a quick look at your post since this thread began You seem very preoccupied with immigration to me As for Forest I'm never going to say anything good about them an i My brother went to Swansea and he says he still can't believe you win that ,completely outplayed Don't think Sabrina can take any credit it's just Mendes giving you all his players

[Trickytreesreds]

We will have to beg to differ I've just had a quick look at your post since this thread began You seem very preoccupied with immigration to me As for Forest I'm never going to say anything good about them an i My brother went to Swansea and he says he still can't believe you win that ,completely outplayed Don't think Sabrina can take any credit it's just Mendes giving you all his players

Well from what I've seen and been told, your brother needs his eyes testing mucker.
The Swansea radio commentators said Forest were the best side they've seen.
It isn't my opinion, listen or watch their bloggers and form your own view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9t_1LVuZ8g

After O'Neill, I didn't give us a prayer this season. Maybe I was too harsh. Just to compete till the end will do me.
We haven't spent that much and shipped out for money.

[mistaram]

Well from what I've seen and been told, your brother needs his eyes testing mucker.
The Swansea radio commentators said Forest were the best side they've seen.
It isn't my opinion, listen or watch their bloggers and form your own view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9t_1LVuZ8g

After O'Neill, I didn't give us a prayer this season. Maybe I was too harsh. Just to compete till the end will do me.
We haven't spent that much and shipped out for money.

Oh yes your right Swansea 63.4% Forest 36% Swansea total passes Swansea 573 Forest 331. Yes your right you were all over them like you were at Fulham

[Trickytreesreds]

Oh yes your right Swansea 63.4% Forest 36% Swansea total passes Swansea 573 Forest 331. Yes your right you were all over them like you were at Fulham

Don't talk bull MR.
Anyteam can keep playing it across the back, when they have no where to go.
Its about how many chances you get to score and how many goals you get.
I think you'll find Swansea had naff all to worry Samba and that's why their fans were saying they deserved nowt.
Obviously you and your brother know more than the comentators from radio Swansea. I bow to your knowledge.

Lets see how many teams win there this season. You go there in February, you have time to improve.

[mistaram]

Don't talk bull MR.
Anyteam can keep playing it across the back, when they have no where to go.
Its about how many chances you get to score and how many goals you get.
I think you'll find Swansea had naff all to worry Samba and that's why their fans were saying they deserved nowt.
Obviously you and your brother know more than the comentators from radio Swansea. I bow to your knowledge.

Lets see how many teams win there this season. You go there in February, you have time to improve.

If your football knowledge is any good you would know we've just played them didn't beat us and we had a team of kids that day Going to Swansea shouldn't hold any fears for anybody . I do actually go to matches not rely the radio

[MadAmster]

Brexit is the biggest question that has faced this country for decades and the central question has now become...a General Election or a second Referendum.

.... or both. The former leading to the latter, dependant, of course, on who wins the election.

[ramAnag]

.... or both. The former leading to the latter, dependant, of course, on who wins the election.

Absolutely right, MA. I should have added...’first’...although, imo, the Referendum should come first.

[Andy_Faber]

So we've had a small but noisy contingent who decided on behalf of 17.4 million folk that those folk weren't voting for 'No Deal' when they voted Leave (many of my acquaintances' retort to that is 'Oh yes I ****ing was' but that's not my issue). We now have another, less small but more noisy, contingent who've decided that the decision of those 17.4 million folk should just be ignored because it doesn't suit their own agenda. I've always been a reluctant Remain voter, but considered the efforts of Vince Cable and the previous Lib Dem exec to at least have some balance to its argument - the New Lib Dems have showed their true colours - and a lesson from history, I recall another party who's leader proposed 'democracy, but on my terms'...

[ramAnag]

So we've had a small but noisy contingent who decided on behalf of 17.4 million folk that those folk weren't voting for 'No Deal' when they voted Leave (many of my acquaintances' retort to that is 'Oh yes I ****ing was' but that's not my issue). We now have another, less small but more noisy, contingent who've decided that the decision of those 17.4 million folk should just be ignored because it doesn't suit their own agenda. I've always been a reluctant Remain voter, but considered the efforts of Vince Cable and the previous Lib Dem exec to at least have some balance to its argument - the New Lib Dems have showed their true colours - and a lesson from history, I recall another party who's leader proposed 'democracy, but on my terms'...

Sadly Andy the appointment of Jo Swinson doesn’t inspire much confidence does it?
You’d think with an imbecile like Johnson in charge the business of opposition would be relatively straightforward.
Unfortunately we seem to be in a time when the three major party leaders, not to mention the U.S. President, appear equally delusional, inadequate or narcissistic.
Oh for some common sense from the likes of Starmer, Benn, Clarke and, although I never thought I’d say it, Grieve.
I’ll probably - and pragmatically - still vote Liberal but with about as much enthusiasm as you’ll vote Remain.

[Andy_Faber]

Sadly Andy the appointment of Jo Swinson doesn’t inspire much confidence does it?
You’d think with an imbecile like Johnson in charge the business of opposition would be relatively straightforward.
Unfortunately we seem to be in a time when the three major party leaders, not to mention the U.S. President, appear equally delusional, inadequate or narcissistic.
Oh for some common sense from the likes of Starmer, Benn, Clarke and, although I never thought I’d say it, Grieve.
I’ll probably - and pragmatically - still vote Liberal but with about as much enthusiasm as you’ll vote Remain.

Mostly agreed apart from the omission of any criticism of the opportunistic Chuka Umunna IMO 100% not to be trusted, I’m sure he’d have a good argument for black being white

[MadAmster]

How's this for a new slant on the referendum. Looking at the implementation of the result of a first past the post vote.

More people voted Leave than voted Remain. That means that the UK will leave the EU.

What the referendum didn't address was the how. There was always 2 routes the UK could go down. Either leave without anything in place and go down the WTO route (unless some 3rd world country vetos that idea, something which appears to be within WTO rules) or to reach some agreement with the EU on how the 2 entities will cooperate with each other going forward.

What would the separation mean for citizens of one entity who live in the other entity. That is important. Cooperation between legal systems and those who carry it out such as the police. Will the intelligence services still work together. Effects on air and sea travel due to restrictions in air space and territorial waters. Military cooperation outside of NATO and many, many other things. Common sense demands that there is some kind of agreement because without it there could be mayhem and chaos.

A deal is, IMO, an absolute necessity. A deal opens a path, an orderly path, to keep the status quo until such time as all those extermely important and vi-tal issues have been solved and the trade agreement between UK/EU has been agreed in order to cause the least amount of problems possible.

The ballot paper didn't mention a deal but, logically, it was a vote on what hapeens not how it happens.

IMO it has been an act of utter stupidity from both sides to spend 3 and a half years quibbling about the framework yet spending no time on choosing what meat to put on the bones. There are a lot of UK citizens who will never vote again and that is down to the government and the EU Commission who have both been way too intransigent.

Why did they take the decision to delay trade talks until the framework was complete? Why did it take the UK well over 2 years to come up with a standpoint in October of 2018?

I blame Remain politicans who should have been active from day 1 but weren't. They have been completely disrespectful of the result by their (in)action.

It looks highly likely now that there will be No Deal. I hope we don't see Indonesia or the Phillipines or some other country veto the WTO route. If that option disappears I have no idea what will happen to tariffs other countries put on UK goods and services. Even with WTO tariffs there will be 48% on lamb exports and 84% on beef........

The politicians charged with carrying out the result of the referendum have an awful lot to answer for and that is true whether you voted Leave, voted Remain, have since changed your mind, didn't vote or have become so disenchanted with politics you don't give a toss anymore. There were more leave votes than there were remain votes. It was an advisory vote but the PM had promised that whichever standpoint won would be carried out. That should have been worked on with gusto. It has, as far as meaningful and serious action is concerned, been put on the back burner or probably off the stove altogether. I fully understand why so many have lost faith in politics.

[MadAmster]

My flabber is utterly ghasted. Somebody on my FB friends list has me confused.

The person in question posted a meme "Look the public voted Brexit, The end". Concise and to the point you may think.

Following several replies that covered a multitude of sins they wrote "The Labour so called polices destroyed the economy".

I replied "are you blaming the worldwide financial crisis on Labour? I always thought it was greedy bankers and their elite clients......"

The reply "No, I'm not"

Me: "I must have misunderstood "The Labour so called polices destroyed the economy" then."

Them: "that’s my personal opinion yes"


Going by what I gauge to be the average IQ on here, I think you will all be as confused as I am. Hopefully, other than engaging on FB in the first place, someone on here can solve my confusion..........

[ramAnag]

MA, in view of recent behaviours and strops from others I’ll preface my reply by stating that I fully respect your view and acknowledge the sense of what you say.

Obviously, imo, we disagree as to where the blame lies. Imo it lies squarely with David Cameron and those fervent Leavers who have sought to further their own political careers by taking Britain on what is, again imo, a dangerous and damaging path.

Attaching past blame - to Cameron in particular - however is ultimately of little use. The point is that we are where we are and we have to move forward out of the impasse.

With that in mind and given that it cannot really be argued that the electorate is now more aware and better informed as to the likely consequences what is so bad about a second referendum?

It surely satisfies the very reasonable request for a democratic solution, enables the electorate to take note of the lies they were undoubtedly told forty or so months ago and will result in a decision...whereas a General Election is only, I believe, going to result in a hung Parliament and further deadlock.

I apologise for the repetition, which seems to have so deeply offended Adi (sadly) and the the two Brexiteers (typically), but if the question remains unanswered and no end of politicking can find a way out of the grid lock, what is so bad about this possible and wholly democratic solution?

P.S. For the record and before any possible howls of anger from elsewhere.
I am not a Corbynite.
I do not hate all Tories. (Only the extreme right wing ones ; D)
I don’t think everything in the EU garden is rosy.
I do want what is best for the people of this country.
I do believe that we will be safer and more prosperous as members of the EU and that we should use our voice to bring about change before we lose it altogether.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think you have answered you own question. Ignore Facebook.

Whilst I cannot understand how 2008 can be blamed on Labour (save as to Gordon Brown mishandling the response: but who wouldn't), there is little doubt that Labour policies across the last 50 years or so have not been altogether "economy friendly",

I suppose you could also blame the existence of UK sub prime mortgages that played a small part in 2008 (which was essentially an international malaise) on aspirational labour policies suckering in those who could not afford to service their debt: but its pretty tenuous.