OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

‘Whilst RA is right that no one person should be singled out’...that’s exactly what you’ve just done.

Did you get all that from the Sun or the Express Tricky?

Nope, change.org.

Are you denying any of it?
Are you saying it would be swept away if the boot was on the other foot?

She's more than a simpleton. She's a nasty piece of work.
I didn't even start on her as to what she says about the nation.
If you think this woman needs defending, especially as a shadow home secretary, then god help you.
Personally, I think Corbyn will lock up for a bit like last time. Out of sight and out of mind.
Live grenade.

[ramAnag]

Nope, change.org.

Are you denying any of it?
Are you saying it would be swept away if the boot was on the other foot?

She's more than a simpleton. She's a nasty piece of work.
I didn't even start on her as to what she says about the nation.
If you think this woman needs defending, especially as a shadow home secretary, then god help you.
Personally, I think Corbyn will lock up for a bit like last time. Out of sight and out of mind.
Live grenade.

I’ve said, repeatedly, that I think she’s a bit of an electoral liability and I don’t particularly like the woman.
I honestly don’t know the truth of your accusations and I don’t doubt that she’s said and done some stupid things but to take just the first three things you’ve suggested...

1) ‘Brexit was triggered by racists who didn’t like seeing people who look foreign on their streets’. Sadly there is more than a grain of truth in that suggestion and SOME Brexiters do seem to have been motivated by little other than basic prejudice.

2) ‘She said Brexit supporters had attacked ethnic minority voters’. It is certainly true that some Brexit supporters attacked people of ethnic minority appearance in the aftermath of the Referendum.

3) ‘Said when people spoke about immigrants, often included people like her from from ethnic minority minority backgrounds who had been British for generations’. There is a common misconception amongst some that those of ‘ethnic appearance’ are somehow not British despite the fact that they may have been born here.

I could go on but let’s leave it there...other than to add that I completely agree with mista’s comments below about Patel.

[mistaram]

Whilst RA is right that no one person should be singled out, she is the sterotypical token placement for any party. Had she been white/straight/in any other party. She'd have been binned years ago.

1) Diane Abbot has claimed Brexit was triggered by racists who did not like seeing people who look 'foreign' on their streets. She Branded Brexiters "Stupid and Racist"
2) She said Brexit supporters had attacked ethnic minority voters afterwards but has no evidence to back this up
2) Said when people spoke about immigrants, often included people like her from ethnic minority backgrounds who had been British for generations (Her Parents are Jamaican, she has been brought up traditionally Jamaican. Her loyalties are clearly biased towards West Indian people).
3) "London shouldn't have another white middle ages mayor"
4) "Blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" are unsuitable as nurses because they had "never met a black person before"
5) Abbott tweeted "White people love playing 'divide and rule' We should not play their game" in 2012
6) Abbott suggested that taxi drivers discriminate on racial grounds, tweeting that she was "Dubious of black people claiming they’ve never experienced racism. Ever tried hailing a taxi I always wonder?"
7) Abbott captures a central political fact, which is that white people in western societies have benefited from their histories of colonial exploitation. .She used the hashtag "tactics as old as colonialism."
8) “West Indian mothers would go to the wall for their children”, suggesting others would not, Andrew Neil responded: "So black mums love their kids more than white mums, do they?" She could not bring herself to say mothers of every race love their children just as much.
9) The MP was investigated by the Committee on Standards and Privileges in 2004 when it emerged she had failed to declare earnings of £17,300 for appearances on The Week.
10) Has a charity that helps black children only in education and spent 29K of its 35K budget on a party for Parliament.

Trickur y have to agree about Abott she's a dimwit and is only there because of her colour very much the same as the present Home Secretary Priti Patel an extreme right Thaterite

Sacked as as Internatial Delelopment Secretary for illegal meetings with Israeli Government
Lobbyist for the alcohol and tobacco industry
Voted to have the smoking ban refunded
Voted for the banning of alcohol duty
Refused to say how much she was paid by them to the Commonss select committee
Voted against same *** marriage
She said Britain use economic damage to Ireland and threaten food shortages to get a better Brexit deal

Yes she sure is a nasty piece of work

[Trickytreesreds]

Trickur y have to agree about Abott she's a dimwit and is only there because of her colour very much the same as the present Home Secretary Priti Patel an extreme right Thaterite

Sacked as as Internatial Delelopment Secretary for illegal meetings with Israeli Government
Lobbyist for the alcohol and tobacco industry
Voted to have the smoking ban refunded
Voted for the banning of alcohol duty
Refused to say how much she was paid by them to the Commonss select committee
Voted against same *** marriage
She said Britain use economic damage to Ireland and threaten food shortages to get a better Brexit deal

Yes she sure is a nasty piece of work

Not arguing at all.
Guilty as hell

RA has completely ignored what I said about Abbotts comments, had they come from a white person.
Perhaps Patel is in the same boat then?

[Andy_Faber]

‘She said Brexit supporters had attacked ethnic minority voters’. It is certainly true that some Brexit supporters attacked people of ethnic minority appearance in the aftermath of the Referendum.

This is an interesting one, I recall especially a massive furore about a Pole being murdered 'in a racially motivated attack' 'as a result of the outcome of the referendum' (both phrases my words as I don't recall the exact words just the prevailing sentiment) and although Abbott didn't get involved in the discussion (she wouldn't have an interest as the victim wasn't black) I do remember folk on here offering it as a reflection on the mindsets of (some) Brexiteers.

I caught a lengthy programme on Radio 4 which examines news stories in a 'cold case' manner and which spent God knows how long investigating this incident and the resulting hour long programme found beyond doubt that the crime was intra-racial not inter-racial in nature, had nothing to do with Brexit and was whipped up into a Brexit storm by a media that needed a story to fit their narrative of the time and crowbarred this one in by ignoring the facts on the ground.

There's a lot of this going on at present, stories being skewed to fit bigotted worldviews and I mean in all directions

[swaledale]

Whilst RA is right that no one person should be singled out, she is the sterotypical token placement for any party. Had she been white/straight/in any other party. She'd have been binned years ago.

1) Diane Abbot has claimed Brexit was triggered by racists who did not like seeing people who look 'foreign' on their streets. She Branded Brexiters "Stupid and Racist"
2) She said Brexit supporters had attacked ethnic minority voters afterwards but has no evidence to back this up
2) Said when people spoke about immigrants, often included people like her from ethnic minority backgrounds who had been British for generations (Her Parents are Jamaican, she has been brought up traditionally Jamaican. Her loyalties are clearly biased towards West Indian people).
3) "London shouldn't have another white middle ages mayor"
4) "Blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" are unsuitable as nurses because they had "never met a black person before"
5) Abbott tweeted "White people love playing 'divide and rule' We should not play their game" in 2012
6) Abbott suggested that taxi drivers discriminate on racial grounds, tweeting that she was "Dubious of black people claiming they’ve never experienced racism. Ever tried hailing a taxi I always wonder?"
7) Abbott captures a central political fact, which is that white people in western societies have benefited from their histories of colonial exploitation. .She used the hashtag "tactics as old as colonialism."
8) “West Indian mothers would go to the wall for their children”, suggesting others would not, Andrew Neil responded: "So black mums love their kids more than white mums, do they?" She could not bring herself to say mothers of every race love their children just as much.
9) The MP was investigated by the Committee on Standards and Privileges in 2004 when it emerged she had failed to declare earnings of £17,300 for appearances on The Week.
10) Has a charity that helps black children only in education and spent 29K of its 35K budget on a party for Parliament.

Oh here we go on your old hobby horse again - so she campaigns for black people as a black person, so what? I do find your poor down trodden little white boy approach symptomatic of typical of a racist bigot who can't quite believe that there may just may be something justified in calling out how black people have been disgracefully treated historically.


As for Abbot only being where she is because she is black and if she had been white she'd wouldn't be there, please explain how the Tories have promoted Truss, Duncan Smith ("the quiet man"!), Francoise, Barclay not to mention Johnson, who in interviews generally waffles, makes outrageous statements that are plainly not true and is still currently very much alive despite having said he would "die in a ditch" rather than not have Brexit on 31 October?

The fact is that there are numerous politicians who are vastly more stupid and incompetent than Abbott, and who shamelessly campaign and lobby for their own interest groups, your only moaning because she is black whch shows you up exactly for what you are, though to be fair, there are numerous posts in this thread where you have quoted utter bilge to support your neo fascist views.

[swaledale]

The fact remains. In a 21st-century world over which Europeans exercise diminishing control, countries in Europe – even peripheral ones, such as Britain – will still be disproportionately dependent on Europe’s shared peace, shared trade, shared values, shared security and a host of other practical links.

This will be a difficult century for Europe, including Britain, Brexit or not. But we will still be better off together than apart. There is no better alternative anywhere else. And the lie that there is one needs to be nailed on 12 December.

[Andy_Faber]

Early running in the election stakes, and the Conservatives campaign does have a feel of disaster about it ATM, part-2017, part-1997, I wonder if they can get one of their own thrown in clink during the campaign?

[Andy_Faber]

The fact remains. In a 21st-century world over which Europeans exercise diminishing control, countries in Europe – even peripheral ones, such as Britain – will still be disproportionately dependent on Europe’s shared peace, shared trade, shared values, shared security and a host of other practical links.

This will be a difficult century for Europe, including Britain, Brexit or not. But we will still be better off together than apart. There is no better alternative anywhere else. And the lie that there is one needs to be nailed on 12 December.

You're thinking like an intellectual though Swale, there are swathes of folk who consider Brexit a means to itself, not a means to an end, despite all the soothesaying about it in the media. You can call them all the names under the sun, but their individual vote is as valuable as yours

[ramAnag]

Not arguing at all.
Guilty as hell

RA has completely ignored what I said about Abbotts comments, had they come from a white person.
Perhaps Patel is in the same boat then?

Tricky I don’t even understand that comment, largely perhaps because I try and look beyond colour.

Patel’s ethnic origins are completely irrelevant to me. If you’re asking...has Abbott got away with making ill judged comments because she’s black then my answer is...I don’t know but I doubt it.

Gove, Leadsom, Rees-Mogg, Raab and Johnson all appear to have an endless supply of stupid, crass and insensitive comments to make, imo, but I’ve never attributed it to them being white.

[MadAmster]

Yet she has a degree from Cambridge? I don't think its a question of intelligence, its not being quick with the BS when interviewed, something a politician needs to be able to do or at least believable bull****!

Not knowing tjhe lady personally means I can only go on what I see, hear and read of her. She has a degree in History so she must have a reasonable level of intelligence. However, she does not come across that way.

She sems unable to grasp a political subject and what might happen in an interview. She ums and arrrs and looks completely flummoxed at the sort of question any politician should expect and should have swotted up on. This happens often, but not exclusively, where numbers are involved. So many questions MPs/Ministers get are about nimbers, %s and simple facts. She doesn't seem able to reproduce those verbally.

How often does she get halfway through a sentence and then stop, mouth wide open and then go back and start the sentence again? Did she just realise she was about to blunder? Maybe it's "no more" than an inability to speak publicly. That would be most unfortunate for a politician.

Whatever the background to this obvious failing is, it's not something a politician should have and it is, IMO, the entire reason people, in general, think she is "3 votes short of a majority" in the upper chamber. A perfectly normal thought based on the "evidence".

[ramAnag]

The fact remains. In a 21st-century world over which Europeans exercise diminishing control, countries in Europe – even peripheral ones, such as Britain – will still be disproportionately dependent on Europe’s shared peace, shared trade, shared values, shared security and a host of other practical links.

This will be a difficult century for Europe, including Britain, Brexit or not. But we will still be better off together than apart. There is no better alternative anywhere else. And the lie that there is one needs to be nailed on 12 December.

100% in agreement with that.

MA...I do have some sympathy with your criticism of Abbott, but if there’s anyone in British politics who ‘umms and arrs’ - not to mention lies - more than Boris Johnson, who also regularly stops mid sentence, mouth agape and eyes staring wildly, then I’ve yet to come across them.
Somehow though, while the former is regularly demonised the latter somehow has developed a reputation for being charismatic and articulate. Bizarre.

[MadAmster]

rA, IMO BoJo's bumbling is a cover up for the right wing elitist he is. Look and sound like a teddy bear whilst preparing the ground for more wealth and power for the 1% and sh*t without sugar for the rest. All part of the trickery.

[Manofpride]

At the end of the day there are leavers and remainers and they're never ever going to agree over Brexit!
There was a vote and leave was the outcome, the government have totally let the people down! I'm surprised
there hasn't been an uprising but I still think that this could happen.
The government has failed it's people!

[ramAnag]

rA, IMO BoJo's bumbling is a cover up for the right wing elitist he is. Look and sound like a teddy bear whilst preparing the ground for more wealth and power for the 1% and sh*t without sugar for the rest. All part of the trickery.

Maybe you’re right there...bit like Nigel Mirage’s ‘pint and a fag...man of the people’ facade.

But isn’t such ‘trickery’ much more worrying and sinister than Abbott’s apparent incompetence?

We run the risk of electing a proven liar who - in your words - is a ‘right wing elitist’ with no concern for the people. That, to me, is a far greater concern than anything provided by Abbott.