OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky are you forgetting something the IFS have said BOTH parties figures don't add up
As for Corbyns main promise to nationilse

I'm sure they do.
But my point was, Labours magic money tree is off the scale and when they don't even stick the worst figures in that manifesto, where does it end?

In my own head, I know there isn't anything like the money in the pot to swill about, for either of them.

Ask me my opinons on raising cash.
1. All companies pay their dues, as should any individual.
2. Scrap the foreign aid budget
3. Stop paying out money to the EU/it's dependents/NHS creamers.
4. Get that immigration points system in place.
5. Clean out parliament/house of Lords with their free loading.

It's a start and I'll take that

[mistaram]

I'm sure they do.
But my point was, Labours magic money tree is off the scale and when they don't even stick the worst figures in that manifesto, where does it end?

In my own head, I know there isn't anything like the money in the pot to swill about, for either of them.

Ask me my opinons on raising cash.
1. All companies pay their dues, as should any individual.
2. Scrap the foreign aid budget
3. Stop paying out money to the EU/it's dependents/NHS creamers.
4. Get that immigration points system in place.
5. Clean out parliament/house of Lords with their free loading.

It's a start and I'll take that

Tricky what the IFS actually said , "A plague on both your houses " So neither sides spending plans stand up to scrutiny . As for the money tree maybe use the same one that Mrs May used to bribe the DUP As for your opinion I agree while heartedly with 1.2.3.5 as for 4 we won't need it Johnson's already chickened out and scrapped the figures for immigration targets ,because he's knows they can't be reached and big business will not let him anyway It doesn't matter how many he lets in now we're not going to know anyway

[swaledale]

I'm sure they do.
But my point was, Labours magic money tree is off the scale and when they don't even stick the worst figures in that manifesto, where does it end?

In my own head, I know there isn't anything like the money in the pot to swill about, for either of them.

Ask me my opinons on raising cash.
1. All companies pay their dues, as should any individual.
2. Scrap the foreign aid budget
3. Stop paying out money to the EU/it's dependents/NHS creamers.
4. Get that immigration points system in place.
5. Clean out parliament/house of Lords with their free loading.

It's a start and I'll take that

Oh dear you do demonstrate an absolute ignorance of reality don't you? No wonder wide boys like farage and Johnson can fool you and your ilk into voting for them!

1. is a no brainer, but Labour are the only party who even attempt to make that happen Johnson and farage are in cahoots with tax dodgers and exploiters.

2. What part of the global crisis which drives immigration do you not understand? IF other countries are in turmoil, or economically bankrupt, then the tide of migrants will grow and as we can see from the recent events, there is no shortage of UK nationals willing to make money helping them!

Could foreign aid be better used and targetted? Of course it could and should be, but scrapping it will not achieve anything, we actually ought to be increasing effective aid to ensure poorer countries keep their populations.

3. WTF are you on about? We benefit from the EU payments, we are going to continue to make payments even If we leave the EU, if we don't we won't be doing much trade with them - what part of paying into a club which as a member one benefits from do you not understand? (All of it obviously because its too complex for you).

Not sure what you mean by NHS creamers, but no doubt its something you picked up from the right wing tabloids you base most of your fictitious arguments from.


4. Immigration points system? To what end? Research has shown that immigration has benefited this country economically, but I guess when Brexit ****s the economy then immigration will slow down anyway and all those Brits will take up the jobs that previously they didn't want to do! I realise you think you can turn back time to before the war, but even you must understand thats not possible.

5. I'll go with reforming the House of Lords, but what exactly do you mean by clearing out parliament? One think that is clear about you and your ilk that are so scathing about politicians is that non of you are politically active, you wouldn't sacrifice the time and effort required, so in that case you have to a body of people elected to govern - of course you might well think that having a dictator in charge is best!

Any organisation or body composed of human beings is going to be flawed by its very nature, I mean think if you actually had any influence, what a mess the country would be in FFS!

But I guess simple people think there are simple solutions to complex problems! Which is where Johnson scores - Get brexit done appeals to the simpletons, never mind its false, even if we leave there will be years of cost and negotiation all for **** all benefit!

[swaledale]

Can Johnson sink any lower?

[MadAmster]

Can Johnson sink any lower?

If you are referring to the 4 year old on the floor photo, it's a setup. Fake News. However, Johnson's initial reaction to the Mirror reporter was awful. Having said that, next time he gets blindsided by a reporter he will, quite rightly, either say he will comment once he has investigated it or that, if true, it is awful and he will investigate how/why it went wrong and instruct the Health Minister to take the appropriate action.

With regard to your reply to Tricky, Swale, "We benefit from the EU payments"? Really? I thought we paid a lot in and got about half of it back, making us net payers to the EU as opposed to receivers. We also import more from the EU than we export to them. I am obviously missing something here so maye you can explain what it is......

This actually looks very much like the financial relationship between Scotland and the UK.......... net payers yet the UK government claims to subsidise the Scots.

Never thought I would, even partially, stand up for BoJo.

[mistaram]

If you are referring to the 4 year old on the floor photo, it's a setup. Fake News. However, Johnson's initial reaction to the Mirror reporter was awful. Having said that, next time he gets blindsided by a reporter he will, quite rightly, either say he will comment once he has investigated it or that, if true, it is awful and he will investigate how/why it went wrong and instruct the Health Minister to take the appropriate action.

With regard to your reply to Tricky, Swale, "We benefit from the EU payments"? Really? I thought we paid a lot in and got about half of it back, making us net payers to the EU as opposed to receivers. We also import more from the EU than we export to them. I am obviously missing something here so maye you can explain what it is......

This actually looks very much like the financial relationship between Scotland and the UK.......... net payers yet the UK government claims to subsidise the Scots.

Never thought I would, even partially, stand up for BoJo.

So it was set up was it Then why have the hospital the Health Secretary and the PM all apologised to the family

[MadAmster]

Lying next to a bed/trolley, allegedly on oxygen but no oxygen mask on his face........... if the bag in the photo is saline or another solution it ought to be above him so the solution flows into his body, NOT on his chest.

Admittedly, I am not a doctor but some things are pure logic.

[Trickytreesreds]

So it was set up was it Then why have the hospital the Health Secretary and the PM all apologised to the family

is it the same as when Corbyn sat on the floor of a full train, that actually wasn't errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrm, full? In fact he was in a reserved carriage.

It makes me piss how low the parties will go to cause a **** storm.

[Trickytreesreds]

At least some in the Labour party know the score

Got to laugh haven't you? Some will leak/stage anything.

https://www.businessinsider.com/jonathan-ashworth-says-jeremy-corbyn-election-chances-are-dire-2019-12?r=US&IR=T

[MadAmster]

Face it, there is no honour in politics these days. I always know when a politician is lying...... their lips move. All in it for themselves, for a cushy career and ditto pension.

[Trickytreesreds]

Face it, there is no honour in politics these days. I always know when a politician is lying...... their lips move. All in it for themselves, for a cushy career and ditto pension.

Spot on Mad.

Like I said, like it or not. This election IS about Brexit.

If it wasn't on the table, the normal stuff would be sorted. But it's been made IN/OUT now.
Pick your side

[swaledale]

Spot on Mad.

Like I said, like it or not. This election IS about Brexit.

If it wasn't on the table, the normal stuff would be sorted. But it's been made IN/OUT now.
Pick your side

Not actually true, but I can see why one would be cynical - trouble is politicians are damned if they do and damned if they don't - Would many vote for them if they told the truth? Do many people want to know the truth?

As for being in it for themselves, well there many, Johnson being one of them whoa re, but there are also many hard working MP's of all political persuasions who spend many hours working for their constituents and believe me it is long hours, which is never mentioned.

Also I would say that the answer surely if you don't like what we have then enter politics oneself, its very easy to carp from the sidelines, when your not prepared to do anything and I'm in no way suggesting that politicians should be above criticism, just before one you tar them all think what you would want in their place?

[Geoff Parkstone]

And a place on "I'm a celebrity, teach me to sing and dance on ice Island"

[MadAmster]

As we appear to be branching out to include the election at the moment, here is my disenfranchised view from afar.

The Tories will implement Brexit. They haven't removed the clauses on worker rights, consumer protection and environmental protection for no reason. Nothing will be done on climate change. Laws will be changed to make life very much easier for the 1% and for the corporations. That will mean it will be very much harder for the rest of us. Worker protections will be removed making things look rosier for US companies. The pensionable age will go up to 75. etc etc etc. It will be back to Victorian times (slight exaggeration there, I know) where we will all be expected to tug at our forelocks to our masters. More kids in poverty, more food banks, more misery.

Labour will, if they can be believed, be opening the floodgates to those in tented camps in Calais and from elsewhere and that will cause civil unrest IMO. They will also try to give us a lot of the things the SNP has done for Scotland like free prescriptions, no tuition fees, etc etc etc and, if they carry out their entire agenda, plunge the nation into even greater debt.

Neither, when you look at what they say they will do, is going to deliver the UK I lived in and would like to see return.

Basically, the question being asked tomorrow is "would you like to be stabbed or shot?" Some choice hey?

My preference would be a result looking like this. The 2 parties needing each other rather than one or more of the also rans to form a credible government, possibly with both on the same number of seats. They would HAVE to work together and that would take the sharp extreme edges off both sides and we would have a coalition government that had taken the right wing policies off the table and the left wing policies too leaving ana wful lot of common ground in the middle. Removing the 10% to 15% of the most left/right wing policies would produce a governemnt that really would be for the many, not the few. One that would make things better.

Wonderful thought with just one major flaw. It aint gonna happen, is it?

Good luck one and all.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Ah, the good old centrist revolution that I have been wanting for some 25 years now! The right wing of the tories will sell us down the river as a playting of globalisation, the left wing of the labour party will bankrupt us in a few years by trying to deliver the undeliverable, no matter how well intentioned.

The options? The Libdems remain pointless, the SNP, DUP, UUP, SF and PC are irrelevant to most voters, the Greens (who I feel aligned to on their primary ambitions) will never gain traction, UKIP-Brexit parties etc are one trick ponies. The rest: are more extreme versions of the two primary parties and some time wasters

So, lets look at my constituency. The standing Tory candidate could prove to be a *****phile serial killer and still romp home with a 30,000 majority. So it doesn't matter what I vote.

NEVER have I felt so disenfranchised. Its extraordinary that after the centuries of struggle to get universal suffrage, we now cannot find a single decent party with sensible policies to use that hard fought vote on.

So I will not be wasting shoe leather trotting round to the polling booth