OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[MadAmster]

Trouble in paradise?


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...Uh38KDdWalYkzM

Not surprised Rutte is against paying €2Bn more. The Dutch are among the most heavily taxed of nations anyway and any extra EU contribution would have to come via taxes or more austerity measures at a time when we are leaving austerity behind us. The 3 highest taxed (Austria, Denmark and Sweden) plus the 6th placed Dutch are the ones fighting this. Hardly a surprise is it?

Or, is it? The Dutch are well known for rubber stamping EU agenda items. A policy that leads to them getting more than their fair share of the top EU jobs. This time it's a stiff "nee" from Rutte et al. The next General Election here is March 2021, just a year away. Anything EU related that would lead to higher taxes would be a bad move for the 4 parties in the coalition. Even if the other 3 give way, Rutte will dig his heels in so as not to commit Hara Kiri in next year's polls. The election might even be brought forward as Dutch coalitions have a tendency to fall apart in the last year as the parties involved gear up their own plans for the future and they often go against the coalition line.

There will be no Dutch capitulation........... until after the election

[Trickytreesreds]

The Irish aren't happy. They have to pay more due to increased employment and economic growth, as per EU rules.
Accepted , but in coalition with rebate cuts, it isn't.
The French (aka Macron wants an increase in budget), surprise surprise.
The lesser countries aren't happy as they want more rebates.

Throw into the mix, French want fishing rights/Spanish want Gibraltar/Greeks want the marbles and it all goes tits up.
The Germans make a tacticle withdrawal peacefully.

Verhofstadt calls for tax laws to be seized by the EU, for them to charge what and who they like.

The fun and games have only just begun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=Trickytreesreds;39440730]The Irish aren't happy. They have to pay more due to increased employment and economic growth, as per EU rules.
Accepted , but in coalition with rebate cuts, it isn't.
The French (aka Macron wants an increase in budget), surprise surprise.
The lesser countries aren't happy as they want more rebates.

Throw into the mix, French want fishing rights/Spanish want Gibraltar/Greeks want the marbles and it all goes tits up.
The Germans make a tacticle withdrawal peacefully.

Verhofstadt calls for tax laws to be seized by the EU, for them to charge what and who they like.

The fun and games have only just begun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE[QUOTE]

No wish to start the whole Brexit debate up again which would be pointless in the circumstances...but how is any of what you describe a good thing?

We in Western Europe have enjoyed the privilege of living through a lengthy period of peace and relative prosperity during the lifetimes of most on here. The fractures, imminent chaos, or ‘fun and games’ - as you describe it - are only likely to jeopardise that imo so I’m not sure why you seem so excited and delighted by it all, Tricky.

What is suddenly looking so much better for us all and how? All I’m seeing is a less united and stable Europe...exactly the same hopeless inability of the British government to manage the NHS or the current flooding crisis and the frankly hideous sight of ‘Emperor Boris’ in his ‘birthday suit’.

[Trickytreesreds]

[QUOTE=ramAnag;39440914][QUOTE=Trickytreesreds;39440730]The Irish aren't happy. They have to pay more due to increased employment and economic growth, as per EU rules.
Accepted , but in coalition with rebate cuts, it isn't.
The French (aka Macron wants an increase in budget), surprise surprise.
The lesser countries aren't happy as they want more rebates.

Throw into the mix, French want fishing rights/Spanish want Gibraltar/Greeks want the marbles and it all goes tits up.
The Germans make a tacticle withdrawal peacefully.

Verhofstadt calls for tax laws to be seized by the EU, for them to charge what and who they like.

The fun and games have only just begun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE

No wish to start the whole Brexit debate up again which would be pointless in the circumstances...but how is any of what you describe a good thing?

We in Western Europe have enjoyed the privilege of living through a lengthy period of peace and relative prosperity during the lifetimes of most on here. The fractures, imminent chaos, or ‘fun and games’ - as you describe it - are only likely to jeopardise that imo so I’m not sure why you seem so excited and delighted by it all, Tricky.

What is suddenly looking so much better for us all and how? All I’m seeing is a less united and stable Europe...exactly the same hopeless inability of the British government to manage the NHS or the current flooding crisis and the frankly hideous sight of ‘Emperor Boris’ in his ‘birthday suit’.

Easy, because the great big con is being exposed for what it is.

When we joined, we joined a free trade group of eight other similar countries.
That was hijacked by a Federalist desire .
There was never any reason to bleed certain countries dry for money to fund others in order to form a EUSSR.
So now we are saying we want to trade, like everyone else does(Canada plus).
Run our own country etc. It just shows you what happens when money isn't flowing around like confetti, what happens. All this harmony and stability doesn't look very stable as soon as the bottomless money pit dries up does it?
The same situation, can and probably will arise, the first economic crash hitting the EU.
So stop blaming me and my ilk.
I want what's best for this country first thank you very much.

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=Trickytreesreds;39441142][QUOTE=ramAnag;39440914]

The Irish aren't happy. They have to pay more due to increased employment and economic growth, as per EU rules.
Accepted , but in coalition with rebate cuts, it isn't.
The French (aka Macron wants an increase in budget), surprise surprise.
The lesser countries aren't happy as they want more rebates.

Throw into the mix, French want fishing rights/Spanish want Gibraltar/Greeks want the marbles and it all goes tits up.
The Germans make a tacticle withdrawal peacefully.

Verhofstadt calls for tax laws to be seized by the EU, for them to charge what and who they like.

The fun and games have only just begun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE

Easy, because the great big con is being exposed for what it is.

When we joined, we joined a free trade group of eight other similar countries.
That was hijacked by a Federalist desire .
There was never any reason to bleed certain countries dry for money to fund others in order to form a EUSSR.
So now we are saying we want to trade, like everyone else does(Canada plus).
Run our own country etc. It just shows you what happens when money isn't flowing around like confetti, what happens. All this harmony and stability doesn't look very stable as soon as the bottomless money pit dries up does it?
The same situation, can and probably will arise, the first economic crash hitting the EU.
So stop blaming me and my ilk.
I want what's best for this country first thank you very much.

Bit defensive Tricky. How am I blaming you and your ilk?
I’m asking how an economic crash in Europe can be a good thing...for us as much as mainland Europe.
I understand (don’t agree with) your reservations about the EU, but the last thing this World needs at the moment is a disunited and fractured Europe.
As for ‘great big cons’, I don’t think you have to look further than our PM...couldn’t get him away from a mop and bucket when the photo opportunities equated to much needed votes in December...been conspicuous only by his absence for the last nine days and two storms.

[Trickytreesreds]

[QUOTE=ramAnag;39441156][QUOTE=Trickytreesreds;39441142]

Bit defensive Tricky. How am I blaming you and your ilk?
I’m asking how an economic crash in Europe can be a good thing...for us as much as mainland Europe.
I understand (don’t agree with) your reservations about the EU, but the last thing this World needs at the moment is a disunited and fractured Europe.
As for ‘great big cons’, I don’t think you have to look further than our PM...couldn’t get him away from a mop and bucket when the photo opportunities equated to much needed votes in December...been conspicuous only by his absence for the last nine days and two storms.

I'm not bothered about BJ in the slightest. His actions will decide his fate at the the next election.

As for Europe, this disunited and fracture has been there for some time, as you will see.
To say that we should just accept EU rule and ignore it is wrong. They had a chance to reform. They didn't. They scoffed and treated Cameron and May with disdain.
All is not well in the EU now. With the French knocking 10 bells out of each other, to the Germans back tracking in self preservation.

My delight is in how a corrupt, unaccountable group of people, who have managed to pull off the biggest ponzi scheme ever. Are seeing their pretty pensions and delusions of grandure unfold.
As a British EMP was told. You're now part of the elite and don't have to worry for the rest of your life. Smashing and the sooner Europe works out they never needed a politburo the better.

Have a read of this guys book.

https://rogerbraybooks.com/2017/07/29/eu-unelected-unaccountable-elite/

[ramAnag]

I have never, ever suggested that ‘we should just accept EU rule’.

Nobody treated Cameron and May with more ‘disdain’ than those in their own party.

‘Not bothered about BJ in the slightest’...suspect you’ll find you should be.

[Trickytreesreds]

I have never, ever suggested that ‘we should just accept EU rule’.

Nobody treated Cameron and May with more ‘disdain’ than those in their own party.

‘Not bothered about BJ in the slightest’...suspect you’ll find you should be.

Well that didn't make a lot of sense?

1. Remaining in the EU and allowing the staus qup to continue, IS just accepting EU rule? We asked for concessions to soften membershiup issues, got **** all back except a PM with a spanked arse. Or did you miss that?

2. Cameron and May, SEE ABOVE. They came back and told us what they had brought back was great. Even though it was full memembership, with no say and the ability of the EU to treat us a vassel state. I'd have kicked off as well FFS.

3. As for BJ, I have no personal like/trust/acceptability of the man at all. HE was the better of a bunch of complete toss pots in the last election. His job will depend on how he performs.
Up to yet, I'd rather endure anything he has done, compared to Corbyn/Swinson etc. The thought of either of those scared the nation to death. Or did you miss that as well?

[Trickytreesreds]

I have to laugh at the sneerers like the BBC.

What's in a colour?
According to the Passport Index, 81 countries have blue passports, including Australia, the United States, Canada, India and Hong Kong.

Several Caribbean countries also favour them, including Jamaica, Antigua and Barbuda, Barbados and St Vincent and the Grenadines.

In Europe, people from Iceland, Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina carry blue passports, while it is a popular colour in central and south America - including in Argentina, Brazil, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Uruguay and Venezuela.

Other nations to have blue passports include Israel, Iraq, Syria and North Korea.


That last line had me in hysterics, what a bunch of arseholes the BBC are.

[ramAnag]

Well that didn't make a lot of sense?

1. Remaining in the EU and allowing the staus qup to continue, IS just accepting EU rule? We asked for concessions to soften membershiup issues, got **** all back except a PM with a spanked arse. Or did you miss that?

2. Cameron and May, SEE ABOVE. They came back and told us what they had brought back was great. Even though it was full memembership, with no say and the ability of the EU to treat us a vassel state. I'd have kicked off as well FFS.

3. As for BJ, I have no personal like/trust/acceptability of the man at all. HE was the better of a bunch of complete toss pots in the last election. His job will depend on how he performs.
Up to yet, I'd rather endure anything he has done, compared to Corbyn/Swinson etc. The thought of either of those scared the nation to death. Or did you miss that as well?

Bit pointless continuing if you can’t grasp what I’ve always argued.

1. I always argued that we should remain in the EU and use our influence to instigate change.

2. I’ve never defended Cameron or May. They were dreadful...simply pointed out that their own party treated them with the same ‘disdain’ - your word - as the EU.

3. Never had much time for Corbyn or Swinson either. You’re right...Johnson benefitted from their incompetence but that really doesn’t mean he should be trusted. He’s just the third shambolic Tory in a row and by far the most egocentric and dangerous...imo.

No point in going over old ground. I only responded because I just don’t get how chaos in Europe benefits anyone unless you really are in favour of some sort of anarchy.

[Trickytreesreds]

Bit pointless continuing if you can’t grasp what I’ve always argued.

1. I always argued that we should remain in the EU and use our influence to instigate change.

2. I’ve never defended Cameron or May. They were dreadful...simply pointed out that their own party treated them with the same ‘disdain’ - your word - as the EU.

3. Never had much time for Corbyn or Swinson either. You’re right...Johnson benefitted from their incompetence but that really doesn’t mean he should be trusted. He’s just the third shambolic Tory in a row and by far the most egocentric and dangerous...imo.

No point in going over old ground. I only responded because I just don’t get how chaos in Europe benefits anyone unless you really are in favour of some sort of anarchy.

Not at all RA, I just don't like bullies and the EU are bullies.

The only thing I would argue against with what you have have just typed is point one.
You don't seem to grasp, that we have have tried to you use our influence for change from within and failed, TWICE.
In fact failed, doesn't even cover it. They seemed to take a great delight in putting us in our place and telling us to do one.
On top of that exactly how many changed have we had voted through in our "membership"? Leave that one for you to Google my dear friend.

[ramAnag]

Not at all RA, I just don't like bullies and the EU are bullies.

The only thing I would argue against with what you have have just typed is point one.
You don't seem to grasp, that we have have tried to you use our influence for change from within and failed, TWICE.
In fact failed, doesn't even cover it. They seemed to take a great delight in putting us in our place and telling us to do one.
On top of that exactly how many changed have we had voted through in our "membership"? Leave that one for you to Google my dear friend.

Oh well...if we tried and failed ‘TWICE’ that’s it then isn’t it?

Everything you’ve said points to how important a member of the EU we were. Acceptance of your argument about it being on the point of collapse as a result of our withdrawal suggests exactly that and as important members and contributors we should have been able to use our influence to bring about change.

Unfortunately all too many of our Parliamentarians and MEPs appear to have proved inept, choosing to direct their energy into Brexit rather than trying to change from within. Still, I’m sure this time next year everything will be much better as the money we’ll be saving pours into the NHS at the rate Emperor Johnson promised. Maybe there’ll even be some left to fix the ‘Grenfell cladded’ tower blocks and the inadequate flood defences...then again!

[Trickytreesreds]

Oh well...if we tried and failed ‘TWICE’ that’s it then isn’t it?

Everything you’ve said points to how important a member of the EU we were. Acceptance of your argument about it being on the point of collapse as a result of our withdrawal suggests exactly that and as important members and contributors we should have been able to use our influence to bring about change.

Unfortunately all too many of our Parliamentarians and MEPs appear to have proved inept, choosing to direct their energy into Brexit rather than trying to change from within. Still, I’m sure this time next year everything will be much better as the money we’ll be saving pours into the NHS at the rate Emperor Johnson promised. Maybe there’ll even be some left to fix the ‘Grenfell cladded’ tower blocks and the inadequate flood defences...then again!

Jesus can you hear yourself?
We aren't that important. They gave us nowt, told us to get in line and are still trying to do so.
We have never changed anything.
We never will, as they give you nothing to encourage it.
If you really can't see that, you're beyond hope.

[MadAmster]

e this time next year everything will be much better as the money we’ll be saving pours into the NHS at the rate Emperor Johnson promised. Maybe there’ll even be some left to fix the ‘Grenfell cladded’ tower blocks and the inadequate flood defences...then again!

You surprise, no, you shock me with that one Tricky. BoJo never promised anything. The NHS slogan on that bus was no more, and no less, than an example of what could be done with the EU membership money. It wasn't even a lie, merely a portion of the truth. The £350M a week was/is the gross amount the UK paid in and still does up to the end of 2020 and, even after that, there will be the phased payment of the "divorce bill". The net amount, taking the rebate and grants and subsidies into account, was roughly half that.

Once we have fully left and also paid off the divorce bill over however many years that is, we will have an extra £350M a week minus any grants/subsidies Westminster makes to the regions to make up for the ones they won't be getting from Brussels. I may be a cynic but, I don't think BoJo et al have the slightest intention of continuing to "be kind" to the regions. Remember, the Tories are a London centric party.

It's quite amazing how many folk thought that "let's fund the NHS instead! actually meant we WILL put ALL that money into the NHS......

[ramAnag]

Jesus can you hear yourself?
We aren't that important. They gave us nowt, told us to get in line and are still trying to do so.
We have never changed anything.
We never will, as they give you nothing to encourage it.
If you really can't see that, you're beyond hope.

Tricky...you can’t have it both ways.
You continually speak of how us leaving the EU will lead to some sort of EU implosion and how they can’t survive without our input and, as we were one of the biggest ‘players’/contributors, there’s obviously some truth in that.
On the other hand you seldom stop bleating that they never gave us anything - absolute nonsense - told us to ‘get in line’ and took no notice of us.
Surely as one of the big three, which we were, it was up to us to make our voice heard...that’s what being one of the influential ‘big boys’ is all about.

Anyway we’re going round in circles again.

MA...you’re right, it wasn’t actually a ‘promise’. Neither was it a ‘portion’ of the truth...it was a deliberate distortion of the truth but I don’t feel you should be ‘amazed’ by how many folk fell for the words on Boris’ bus. The majority of the electorate don’t share your level of political ‘literacy’.
They fell for Johnson’s words in exactly the same way as they fell for Farage being a ‘man of the people’ and in exactly the same way as they were bored into believing that ‘let’s get Brexit done’ was preferable to let’s actually understand the logic and consequences of what we’re about to do.