OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

SWALE: Absolutely thats exactly the answer if you are a big organisation that has the knowhow and finance to do it. I saw it all the time in the three years leading up to brexit as (not just paper) EU companies were set up in UK insurance company groups to accommodate doing EU business.

But the small businesses are the ones to suffer, especially those that trade B2C online, with costs rising and the problem that has come to light with returned goods - being cheaper to burn the returns rather than pay the costs of reimporting. This mostly will hit mom n pop type "facebook businesses" who export but also intermediate sized ones that perhaps are doing it for more than pin money.

The 90 day limit on stays in EU is interesting - I wonder if it will mean the forced repatriation of Spain's costa del crime residents or whether they can/will apply for EU nationality of convenience? There never was going to be any benefit in brexit for the "house in the sun" brigade - legal or extradition avoidance - but those who have such places are amongst your "new elite" and allegedly deserve to suffer for the common good of keeping Romanians and Poles out

[Andy_Faber]

P.S. Andy...tbh I had never been on a plane until five weeks after 9/11. Been on hundreds since but air travel was prohibitively expensive and all our family trips involved ferries and cars...I still look on with genuine amazement at old films with people casually smoking on board.
Imagine you’re referring to the impact of terrorism and the extra time one has to spend in airports as a result. I’ve never known anything different but I imagine it must be annoying for you.
It’s also essential imo...as will be the likely Covid vaccination checks...and that’s the difference, hold ups for reasons of safety are entirely necessary. Hold ups and other travel complications brought about by Brexit taking us back to the red tape of 1950’s are entirely self inflicted.

I wasn't JUST referring to the impact of terrorism, although it was the single biggest 'hit' on the carefree days of the 80s and I do find it difficult to argue against folk who give 'clearly South Asian' folk a wide berth, even now. But there's the general move towards risk-averseness, the reduction in behaviour/increase in entitlement of passengers and obsession on the part of Airports and airlines with squeezing every last sheckle out of a captive audience that all impact negatively on the enjoyment of the flight experience. I agree that Brexit will add to it for EU trips but its just a small part of the mix

[ramAnag]

I wasn't JUST referring to the impact of terrorism, although it was the single biggest 'hit' on the carefree days of the 80s and I do find it difficult to argue against folk who give 'clearly South Asian' folk a wide berth, even now.

Really? I honestly can’t quite believe you’ve said that.
God help you if you ever find yourself sitting next to a catholic on a Ryan Air flight, or are they somehow different?

Any particular ‘clearly South Asian folk’, or are they all to be avoided?

[Andy_Faber]

Really? I honestly can’t quite believe you’ve said that.
God help you if you ever find yourself sitting next to a catholic on a Ryan Air flight, or are they somehow different?

Any particular ‘clearly South Asian folk’, or are they all to be avoided?

I didn't say I did it rA, just found it difficult to argue against folk who did/do. Who am I to moralise with people who are just exercising risk averseness? It happened to me last night, a number of folk gave me a miss during my evening walk for no other reason than I was wearing a borrowed dappy hat and black puffa jacket, making me look (I now realise) a thug.

[ramAnag]

Do ‘thugs’ wear ‘dappy hats’? Wouldn’t have thought so...maybe it was something else.

Not moralising...but I wouldn’t find it at all difficult to ‘argue against’ people who give ‘South Asian folk a wide berth’. Why would they?

[Andy_Faber]

Do ‘thugs’ wear ‘dappy hats’? Wouldn’t have thought so...maybe it was something else.

Not moralising...but I wouldn’t find it at all difficult to ‘argue against’ people who give ‘South Asian folk a wide berth’. Why would they?

OK I looked a stupid thug. Impressed you know what a dappy hat is

[swaledale]

SWALE: Absolutely thats exactly the answer if you are a big organisation that has the knowhow and finance to do it. I saw it all the time in the three years leading up to brexit as (not just paper) EU companies were set up in UK insurance company groups to accommodate doing EU business.

But the small businesses are the ones to suffer, especially those that trade B2C online, with costs rising and the problem that has come to light with returned goods - being cheaper to burn the returns rather than pay the costs of reimporting. This mostly will hit mom n pop type "facebook businesses" who export but also intermediate sized ones that perhaps are doing it for more than pin money.

The 90 day limit on stays in EU is interesting - I wonder if it will mean the forced repatriation of Spain's costa del crime residents or whether they can/will apply for EU nationality of convenience? There never was going to be any benefit in brexit for the "house in the sun" brigade - legal or extradition avoidance - but those who have such places are amongst your "new elite" and allegedly deserve to suffer for the common good of keeping Romanians and Poles out

Hang on a minute! Not so long ago you were claiming the average millionaire (albeit on paper) in this country with an average pension and detached house was an ordinary person. Now apparently these same people are amongst the new elite - make your mind up both propositions can't be true.

In any case many of the people who went to live or work abroad are far from any elite as you describe them, many are average working people who saved up and bought a home abroad to make use of in their retirement or even to retire to or those who work abroad, enabled by the UK's membership of the EU.

You'd struggle to describe any of these people whose dreams, hopes and lives have been affected as part of the new elite, but it shows the extent of your self centred narrow perspective that you have described them as such, without actually knowing anything about them!

[swaledale]

I didn't say I did it rA, just found it difficult to argue against folk who did/do. Who am I to moralise with people who are just exercising risk averseness? It happened to me last night, a number of folk gave me a miss during my evening walk for no other reason than I was wearing a borrowed dappy hat and black puffa jacket, making me look (I now realise) a thug.

I think they were more scared of catching Covid--19 than anything else but may be your ego thinks otherwise!

[MadAmster]

SWALE: Absolutely thats exactly the answer if you are a big organisation that has the knowhow and finance to do it. I saw it all the time in the three years leading up to brexit as (not just paper) EU companies were set up in UK insurance company groups to accommodate doing EU business.

But the small businesses are the ones to suffer, especially those that trade B2C online, with costs rising and the problem that has come to light with returned goods - being cheaper to burn the returns rather than pay the costs of reimporting. This mostly will hit mom n pop type "facebook businesses" who export but also intermediate sized ones that perhaps are doing it for more than pin money.

The 90 day limit on stays in EU is interesting - I wonder if it will mean the forced repatriation of Spain's costa del crime residents or whether they can/will apply for EU nationality of convenience? There never was going to be any benefit in brexit for the "house in the sun" brigade - legal or extradition avoidance - but those who have such places are amongst your "new elite" and allegedly deserve to suffer for the common good of keeping Romanians and Poles out

B2C - I highlighted how it affects the small seller yesterday and you are right GP

Costa del Crime - I'm not sure of the precise regs in Spain but they aren't dissimilar to those here in NL or other EU countries. Namely, UK expats were given regular notice over the past 4 years of negotiating as to what they needed to do to be able to remain a resident in their chosen EU home. That gave them the chance to apply for resident status, which doesn't require the need to apply for citizenship and the possible giving up of their British nationality. Those with resident status in, for instance, Spain, can come and go between the UK and Spain as often as they like. That freedom doesn't extend to other EU countries though. On other EU countries they would still be subject to the 90 day rule.

[Andy_Faber]

B2C - I highlighted how it affects the small seller yesterday and you are right GP

Costa del Crime - I'm not sure of the precise regs in Spain but they aren't dissimilar to those here in NL or other EU countries. Namely, UK expats were given regular notice over the past 4 years of negotiating as to what they needed to do to be able to remain a resident in their chosen EU home. That gave them the chance to apply for resident status, which doesn't require the need to apply for citizenship and the possible giving up of their British nationality. Those with resident status in, for instance, Spain, can come and go between the UK and Spain as often as they like. That freedom doesn't extend to other EU countries though. On other EU countries they would still be subject to the 90 day rule.

MA pretty much nails it there for espania, Mrs F and I had fair warning and progressed through stage 1 (the stage before 'residencia') and were going to go for residencia which offered the benefits described by MA until we decided to sell up. Any of the stages also avoid the need for an EHIC or equivalent (Mrs F's mum broke a hip in Mallorca and the treatment was top-notch with no expat-related forms to fill). Going back to the rA point about travel, yes there will be some buggeration, but we'll soon learn to 'suck it up buttercup'

[Ram59]

The EU are treading on some very dangerous grounds with their threats against the pharmaceutical companies, to cover for their bureaucratical inadequacies. Their actions could lead to big international companies either pulling out of or not choosing to have production plants in the EU.

This is a perfect example of what us Brexiteers wish to get away from. A sloth like bureaucratic mess and when things go wrong, they come in heavy handed over everyone. It's simple too big and too diverse an organisation to work properly.

[swaledale]

The EU are treading on some very dangerous grounds with their threats against the pharmaceutical companies, to cover for their bureaucratical inadequacies. Their actions could lead to big international companies either pulling out of or not choosing to have production plants in the EU.

This is a perfect example of what us Brexiteers wish to get away from. A sloth like bureaucratic mess and when things go wrong, they come in heavy handed over everyone. It's simple too big and too diverse an organisation to work properly.

Except what we are seeing is politicians doing what politicians everywhere do, ours especially, which is a lot of hot air, designed to distract from the fact that they are unable to deliver their promises. So its not peculiar to the EU, I mean its something Farage tends to do almost everyday, waffle a lot of hot air about something that when one delves beneath the detail isn't actually true.

If we get away from the ill informed and incorrect Brexit side issue, the cold facts are this. The delay to the Eu in delivering the vaccine isn't going to make much difference, it will still be mid summer at the earliest before vaccination is going to impact generally on lives.

The Uk isn't going to benefit in the medium term by non cooperation, before life in the UK returns to something like normal, all of the EU and a great proportion of the rest of the world are going to have to have the vaccination as reinfection and more importantly new mutants will keep coming in from outside.

So if the world is going to defeat this virus, it needs to work cooperatively in order to ensure very country gets the vaccine.

[ramAnag]

Except what we are seeing is politicians doing what politicians everywhere do, ours especially, which is a lot of hot air, designed to distract from the fact that they are unable to deliver their promises. So its not peculiar to the EU, I mean its something Farage tends to do almost everyday, waffle a lot of hot air about something that when one delves beneath the detail isn't actually true.

If we get away from the ill informed and incorrect Brexit side issue, the cold facts are this. The delay to the Eu in delivering the vaccine isn't going to make much difference, it will still be mid summer at the earliest before vaccination is going to impact generally on lives.

The Uk isn't going to benefit in the medium term by non cooperation, before life in the UK returns to something like normal, all of the EU and a great proportion of the rest of the world are going to have to have the vaccination as reinfection and more importantly new mutants will keep coming in from outside.

So if the world is going to defeat this virus, it needs to work cooperatively in order to ensure very country gets the vaccine.

Couldn’t agree more with every word of that. Well put.

[Trickytreesreds]

Except it isn't all equal is it?
The EU preaches the unity of the 27, yet the vaccination figures alone( even llowing for the EU **** up), shows seniority being applied with Germany/France/Italy/Spain

The smaller ones don't seem to be getting a good deal out of this unified stance.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/28/covid-19-vaccinations-in-europe-which-countries-are-leading-the-way

[Ram59]

Except what we are seeing is politicians doing what politicians everywhere do, ours especially, which is a lot of hot air, designed to distract from the fact that they are unable to deliver their promises. So its not peculiar to the EU, I mean its something Farage tends to do almost everyday, waffle a lot of hot air about something that when one delves beneath the detail isn't actually true.

If we get away from the ill informed and incorrect Brexit side issue, the cold facts are this. The delay to the Eu in delivering the vaccine isn't going to make much difference, it will still be mid summer at the earliest before vaccination is going to impact generally on lives.

The Uk isn't going to benefit in the medium term by non cooperation, before life in the UK returns to something like normal, all of the EU and a great proportion of the rest of the world are going to have to have the vaccination as reinfection and more importantly new mutants will keep coming in from outside.

So if the world is going to defeat this virus, it needs to work cooperatively in order to ensure very country gets the vaccine.

Back to being wrong Swale, including your tailgunner. Do the math, 99% of UK deaths are in the groups to be vaccinated by the end of March, with 80% of the deaths in those vaccinated before the middle of February. 3 weeks after these dates, those vaccinated will have enough protection to prevent hospitalisation which is usually a couple of weeks after infection. From these simple facts 80% potential hospital admissions will not happen towards the end of March, increasing to 99% early May.

This will have a significant impact on our current position and it will be well before your middle of summer. Covid in other countries will have some effect on life in this country, but will not prevent the UK from relaxing the current severe lockdown restrictions, which is what is affecting a majority of the population.

Covid is not going to go away anytime soon, globally. The UK and similar countries will sort out their own populations before extending help to other less well off countries and this will take a varying amount of time. The EU are unlikely to be in this position for some time because of their own mess.

Your usual blind defence of everything EU is embarrassing, they have messed up big time and are trying to bully there way out of it. I imagine that your idea of the UK co-operating with them, is that the UK sacrifice the lives of some its citizens, in favour of saving those in the EU. The UK, once these various vaccines are supplied in excess of our requirements will be the world leaders in distributing millions of doses to the developing world, far more than the whole of your precious EU will do this year.

Just you were wrong stating that the Oxford vaccine wasn't made in the UK, just like you were wrong with your claim that Germany were getting 30 million doses parallel with the EU order.