OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[roger_ramjet]

Indeed Swale - the Irish must be rubbing their hands in glee. In the EU, almost in the UK, almost speak English, two international tax free zones reasonable infrastructure....

[swaledale]

I've made more trips to Ireland these past 6 months than in my entire life and I'm rubbing my hands i can tell you, Brexit is very good for business, such that all going well i shall be able to retire early and wont give a flying ****, but I do wonder where it will all end up - I suspect in some kind of fudge and of course these things being cyclical the EU could well implode and whilst there are those who may welcome that, I would be very careful what one wishes for!

[Andy_Faber]

I do find it odd, Andy, that you and Roger both voted 'Remain', albeit slightly reluctantly, and have now become such vociferous supporters of the referendum result

No, not a supporter of the result, merely not a denier (denyer?). I don't agree with 'hard brexit' but I agree even less with those who are in denial about the result, try to argue its validity, or soothsay every bit of negative gossip into hard fact. I want the people that we 'trust' to do such things for us to get the very best deal they can, by whatever legal means are possible. And if by some miracle its Jeremy Corbyn who has to lead the charge, he'll 100% get my support, seriously. I might even max out his chances by abducting Diane abbott for the duration of the negotiations

Hope that clarifies

[swaledale]

Thats going to be hard, finding someone we can trust to get the best deal, not sure either May or Corbyn can do that!

[macstheman]

Get Boris in , he'll so befuddle them that not only will we get what we want but they'll chuck in the Eiffel Tower just to get rid of us!!

[ramAnag]

Get Boris in , he'll so befuddle them that not only will we get what we want but they'll chuck in the Eiffel Tower just to get rid of us!!

Rarely disagree with you mac...but in this instance I hope that comment is completely tongue in cheek. Can't imagine anyone worse...and that includes Corbyn.

[macstheman]

Sorry rA meant to put lol after post. Just imagine Frau Merkel, Juncker et al in discussions lasting hours, days, weeks with Forrest Gump!! Priceless!!

[Ram59]

I'm not going to return to the debate on whether we should stay or go, the deed is done all that remains is what deal we get and believe me that will have a significant impact on most people and if its a hard brexit, the negative impact will on many of those who voted brexit!

On the subject of a hard brexit, there is some tosh thrown around, yes we import more than we export, but people are overlooking one very simple thing, our trade is with 27 countries, the Eu's is with us, they have the 27 in the EU plus countries outside the EU to export to, its clear that it will be a lot easier for the EU to replace trade lost with the Uk than it is going to be for the Uk to replace trade lost with the EU.

BUT, that isn't the most significant matter - many companies in technology, finance and other services, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, aerospace and car manufacturing that are based in the UK, do so because it gives them access to the single market and the EU supply chain, if we have a hard brexit, that is going to be a real issue and already many companies are making plans which will see them establish bases or headquarters in an EU country and outside the UK - what that will mean is less export earnings, less tax, less jobs and a knock on to associated industries with more job losses etc. Economically a hard brexit could be a devastating blow to the UK economy and whats more one that is self inflicted.

You make it sound like a hard brexit means all trade with the EU'will stop. As I've said before, the devaluation of the pound means that even with a small tarif, our goods will be cheaper than last year. Whereas the German cars will cost much more than last year. So, you say the Germans are suddenly going to find new markets for the 20% of their cars they sell to us. At the moment then, how many countries are they not selling to, because they're selling to us?

A hard brexit will be a body blow to many EU industries, which in their rush to punish us, their negotiators don't seem to care about. It's this attitude which makes me more certain that we're making the right choice, in the long run.

[Andy_Faber]

You make it sound like a hard brexit means all trade with the EU'will stop. As I've said before, the devaluation of the pound means that even with a small tarif, our goods will be cheaper than last year. Whereas the German cars will cost much more than last year. So, you say the Germans are suddenly going to find new markets for the 20% of their cars they sell to us. At the moment then, how many countries are they not selling to, because they're selling to us?

A hard brexit will be a body blow to many EU industries, which in their rush to punish us, their negotiators don't seem to care about. It's this attitude which makes me more certain that we're making the right choice, in the long run.

Its an interesting thing that the 27 (appeared to be) totally as one last week regarding the start of the Brexit negotiations. I think this mock unity is their biggest weakness, and I hope the UK side eat away at that unity - divide and conquer if you like. If it was my negotiating team, I'd be making a hit list of negotiating areas where the differences within the 27 are the greatest. Its a dog eat dog world.

[ramAnag]

Its an interesting thing that the 27 (appeared to be) totally as one last week regarding the start of the Brexit negotiations. I think this mock unity is their biggest weakness, and I hope the UK side eat away at that unity - divide and conquer if you like. If it was my negotiating team, I'd be making a hit list of negotiating areas where the differences within the 27 are the greatest. Its a dog eat dog world.

'It's a dog eat dog world'. Which Andy is this speaking? The Christian you purport to be? The occasional Tory or just the hard headed businessman? Must be quite hard reconciling the first with the other two.

[Andy_Faber]

'It's a dog eat dog world'. Which Andy is this speaking? The Christian you purport to be? The occasional Tory or just the hard headed businessman? Must be quite hard reconciling the first with the other two.

I don't see any contradictions R. I'm stating a fact and suggesting tactics 'our' well-heeled besuited negotiators could adopt against 'their' well-heeled besuited negotiators. Have you never done any negotiating? Good negotiators are a different breed. In fact wanting the very best outcome for UK is a very Christian (if somewhat idealist) aspiration, a better deal will (should!) result in greater prosperity right through the social scale

Occasional Tory? If voting Conservative (or for that matter, any party) in a non-bigoted, well-researched way is what you mean, well 'guilty guv'. I will be voting Conservative this time not because they have any great social conscience but because Labour are a shambles, and Swale told me off for voting Libdem last time. Compare any Conservative minister with the Labour equiv and there's just no comparison, although I have been impressed with John McDonnell and Keir Starmer's performances in the past few weeks

[ramAnag]

Have I done any negotiating? Have to admit to very little.
'Occasional Tory' actually meant what it said...I'm sure you've said in the past that there had been occasions when you'd voted Tory although you're not an 'habitual' one.
Can't believe you're not voting LibDem because Swale told you off last time...but my point really was...'it's a dog eat dog world' is probably one of the least Christian sentiments going. For what it's worth I respect your musings and your 'faith' but I do think there is a contradiction.

[swaledale]

You make it sound like a hard brexit means all trade with the EU'will stop. As I've said before, the devaluation of the pound means that even with a small tarif, our goods will be cheaper than last year. Whereas the German cars will cost much more than last year. So, you say the Germans are suddenly going to find new markets for the 20% of their cars they sell to us. At the moment then, how many countries are they not selling to, because they're selling to us?

A hard brexit will be a body blow to many EU industries, which in their rush to punish us, their negotiators don't seem to care about. It's this attitude which makes me more certain that we're making the right choice, in the long run.

I didn't say that all trade would stop, just that actually the EU has more options and thats an undeniable fact to think that the Eu countries are not prepared to suffer some short term economic pain in order to preserve the EU is wishful thinking but as I said that is not the big issue, which you do not even address!

How lsoing 20% or less in trade is going to be a body blow to Eu industries is puzzling - goods sourced from the Uk can be sourced from elsewhere and the Eu can just as easily replace trade with the UK as Brexiteers claim the Uk can replace trade with the Eu with trade elsewhere, actually its easier and quicker for the Eu as they already have trade agreements in place, the UK has to negotiate those!

Only the right wing anti EU media are claiming that the EU negotiators wish to "punish" us! Stands to reason that if your a member of a club from which one gets benefits, you cannot reasonably get those benefits if you leave that club, this is a simple principle, otherwise the purpose of the club becomes meaningless and thats all thats being said - there are ways of keeping some benefits but there are conditions attached to those - whilst I marvel at the optimism of those who think that we can do that on ur own terms, in reality that isn't going to be the case - now it may be that a Hard Brexit delivers benefits that as yet aren't clear, what is clear are the negatives of a hard Brexit.

As for it being the right choice in the long term, how long is the long term and other than a "feeling" what actual evidence is there for this proposition?

[Andy_Faber]

Have I done any negotiating? Have to admit to very little.
'Occasional Tory' actually meant what it said...I'm sure you've said in the past that there had been occasions when you'd voted Tory although you're not an 'habitual' one.
Can't believe you're not voting LibDem because Swale told you off last time...but my point really was...'it's a dog eat dog world' is probably one of the least Christian sentiments going. For what it's worth I respect your musings and your 'faith' but I do think there is a contradiction.

The Swale thing was a joke, based on him having a Benny at me for voting LibDem in 2015. Re Dog Eat Dog I think you're interpreting my opinion, specific to the negotiations, as a personal mantra, which it isn't - I wish we were all living in the middle of a Blue Mink song believe me

[Andy_Faber]

Just as a matter of interest:

If, after a week, the negotiators came back and announced 'we have a deal. No free movement of people, no rule from Brussels, no tarrifs either way on goods and services, UK can do trade deals elsewhere, and all that for a weekly fee from UK to EU of £100m', would you vote for it?