OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Two and a half years and right about figures? By my reckoning this debate only started 1 1/2 years ago, so back to being wrong with numbers you go!!

Don’t spoil it...I wasn’t just talking about this debate.
At least Adi has behaved like a gentleman...even if Andy is still in denial.
Either way, the outpouring of polite disagreement on this thread makes a pleasant change.

[Andy_Faber]

Don’t spoil it...I wasn’t just talking about this debate.
At least Adi has behaved like a gentleman...even if Andy is still in denial.
Either way, the outpouring of polite disagreement on this thread makes a pleasant change.

Ha! Not in denial, Adi's assertion is correct (although his last number is wrong), RR just went off on one trying to add value to the debate and up his fee. RR isn't wrong, but neither is Adi, and he rolled over a bit too easy on that one. May I politely say.

[ramAnag]

Ha! Not in denial, Adi's assertion is correct (although his last number is wrong), RR just went off on one trying to add value to the debate and up his fee. RR isn't wrong, but neither is Adi, and he rolled over a bit too easy on that one. May I politely say.

You may say it as often and politely as you like, but the figures Adi produced do absolutely nothing to support his suggestion that a weaker pound and increasing inflation ‘has been the case for the last 20 years during our EU membership’. The figures actually prove the opposite while, I would politely add, they also hint at how much better things were under Blair and prior to what is euphemistically called the ‘banking crisis’...aka the time when greedy bankers and crooked financiers got caught out, but remain largely unpunished, for ripping the rest of us off.

[Andy_Faber]

You may say it as often and politely as you like, but the figures Adi produced do absolutely nothing to support his suggestion that a weaker pound and increasing inflation ‘has been the case for the last 20 years during our EU membership’. The figures actually prove the opposite while, I would politely add, they also hint at how much better things were under Blair and prior to what is euphemistically called the ‘banking crisis’...aka the time when greedy bankers and crooked financiers got caught out, but remain largely unpunished, for ripping the rest of us off.

We’ll have to agree to differ on most of that so, the debate continues!

[swaledale]

Those stats are pretty powerful, I think I might pm them to Swale.

And that comment shows why those who champion leave haven't the faintist idea what Brexit will mean! If your going to quote statistics then please give them some context!

Tying those stats to one factor, our membership of the Eu and claiming they make a powerful case to leave is why I don't bother contributing to this so called debate anymore.

Just remember my predictions - if we have a full on hard Brexit the economy of this country will be stiffed for decades. The people who will suffer most economically will be the very people who have been most enthusiastic about Brexit and especially those that live in economically deprived areas.

Lesson over I'm back to earning more dosh for my retirement helping companies mitigate Brexit by removing their operations from the UK and in doing so taking jobs, income and tax revenues with them!

[Andy_Faber]

And that comment shows why those who champion leave haven't the faintist idea what Brexit will mean! If your going to quote statistics then please give them some context!

Tying those stats to one factor, our membership of the Eu and claiming they make a powerful case to leave is why I don't bother contributing to this so called debate anymore.

Just remember my predictions - if we have a full on hard Brexit the economy of this country will be stiffed for decades. The people who will suffer most economically will be the very people who have been most enthusiastic about Brexit and especially those that live in economically deprived areas.

Lesson over I'm back to earning more dosh for my retirement helping companies mitigate Brexit by removing their operations from the UK and in doing so taking jobs, income and tax revenues with them!

I knew you'd bite.

You can't help but brag off about your money earning abilities can you - notice how no-one else feels the need to spunk off about their earning capability?

I think the exchange rate stats (although they were wrong) do make a point in support of what Adi was saying, although none of my lines of argument could cause anything but three pages of contradictions, so I backed off going off on one with reams of context/evidence. You might also notice we had a friendly bit of banter, you should try joining in some time

[roger_ramjet]

Lesson over I'm back to earning more dosh for my retirement helping companies mitigate Brexit by removing their operations from the UK and in doing so taking jobs, income and tax revenues with them!

How is that new job as a furniture removal man's assistant going then Swale? Is the humping training complete? Must be about ready to learn how to "phwoar" the female office staff soon?

😁😁😉

[ramAnag]

And that comment shows why those who champion leave haven't the faintist idea what Brexit will mean! If your going to quote statistics then please give them some context!

Tying those stats to one factor, our membership of the Eu and claiming they make a powerful case to leave is why I don't bother contributing to this so called debate anymore.

Just remember my predictions - if we have a full on hard Brexit the economy of this country will be stiffed for decades. The people who will suffer most economically will be the very people who have been most enthusiastic about Brexit and especially those that live in economically deprived areas.

Lesson over I'm back to earning more dosh for my retirement helping companies mitigate Brexit by removing their operations from the UK and in doing so taking jobs, income and tax revenues with them!

Swale, much as I’m far more likely to agree with you than Andy over Brexit, doesn’t that latest answer put you in competition with Johnson and Farage in the hypocrisy stakes?

[Trickytreesreds]

More xenophobic propaganda ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA7fUQuJ-wE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Vjc_PeYtc

[ramAnag]

More xenophobic propaganda ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA7fUQuJ-wE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Vjc_PeYtc

Bollux is bollux Tricky, however well enunciated it may be...and that is, most certainly, pure bollux!

[Andy_Faber]

Swale, much as I’m far more likely to agree with you than Andy over Brexit, doesn’t that latest answer put you in competition with Johnson and Farage in the hypocrisy stakes?

I'm not sure we disagree much R, especially on the avoided culpability for the banking crisis, and I wish you could have popped in here yesterday, I had a pair of 'corporate types' come to see me who, with their sharp suits and their dead eyes, gave me the impression they would have slit my throat for a penny and turned away looking for the next deal before I'd hit the floor

We also agree on public services, ie they are under-resourced - but you think they are underfunded and I think they are overloaded

[ramAnag]

I'm not sure we disagree much R, especially on the avoided culpability for the banking crisis, and I wish you could have popped in here yesterday, I had a pair of 'corporate types' come to see me who, with their sharp suits and their dead eyes, gave me the impression they would have slit my throat for a penny and turned away looking for the next deal before I'd hit the floor

We also agree on public services, ie they are under-resourced - but you think they are underfunded and I think they are overloaded

Semantics Mr. F...surely if you agree they are ‘under resourced’ then they are only ‘overloaded’ precisely because they are ‘underfunded’.

[roger_ramjet]

I like Bukovsky's analogy and there is a great deal of evident truth in what he says on the conceptual similarities between what the EU and SU were trying to achieve. I particularly like the "expand or die" aspect. The EU is a Ponzi scheme. His thoughts very much echo my left shouldered devil about the creation of a European Single State. Ramanag's fears about the economy rather echo those of my right shouldered angel. Hence my continued uncertainty over the route we are going down: but whatever we have chosen, we must remain committed to it, not compromise it and end up with all the bad aspects and none of the good.

Neither angel nor devil are emphatically persuasive - Bukovsky's fears may be illusory and perhaps more EU states than us will reject the single state scenario and so it wont happen: but the EU decision making is still basically made by unelected officials and dominated by Germany and their acolytes.

On the other hand, I think economically we would be better off remaining, despite the optimism of "new markets" put forward by brexiteers. There is uncertainty as to whether we will be better off in or out economically. On balance I suspect remaining will give us more economic certainty and stability - and it will be hard to reverse the running down of our production of physical goods that years of cheap imports and, subsequently, focussed european based industry specialisation have helped create.

These are the two counterbalancing issues that I think are important to the in/out debate. Note I say debate - the actual referendum result was determined in the main by a different fear factor, the quasi racist "free movement of labour" issue which seems to have swayed many - or at least enough in an already tightly balanced contest.

It may simply be that the twin issues of economy vs democracry/nationalism were too complicated for the man in the street to understand - and were probably ill explained and subject to a variety of mistruths from either side. But he could understand the "damned poles/romanians/czechs etc" argument because he could recognise them and scapegoat them, perhaps for his own shortcomings.

So I believe the referendum created a decision based on the wrong reasons. it may prove to be the right decision, but noone can argue it was for the right reasons.

The risks - to leave and undergo a difficult few years adjusting to a new trade environment, to perhaps see a rebasing of the our currency, sovereign debt rating and balance of payments. Perhaps an overall downturn in the level of economic activity, but long term this can be adjusted to and ultimately remedied.

To stay and perhaps succumb to the unitary state, the euro, the european army etc. Sure we can try to influence the direction of the U policy, but we will fail. We can only make a stand against the tide by leaving - Cnut didnt really stop it, and we are naive to think we could despite the "magic bullet" of a veto.

I (and probably many of the rest of us "old pensioners") will probably not be around by the time we can evaluate the decision in the cool light of the day: but it we are ever going to leave, then we have to do it now before we get irretrievably assimilated to the Borg. Its a shame we didnt leave when the euro was introduced...

If only the Berlin wall hadn't come down

[Andy_Faber]

Semantics Mr. F...surely if you agree they are ‘under resourced’ then they are only ‘overloaded’ precisely because they are ‘underfunded’.

No I don't think its semantics at all, I return to putting it another way, you want to spend more on the same (and increasing) amount of demand, I want to spend the same (or less) on a reduced demand (and there is another route I would put before both, achieve more from every £ spent).

[Romanis]

How is that new job as a furniture removal man's assistant going then Swale? Is the humping training complete? Must be about ready to learn how to "phwoar" the female office staff soon?

������

A job's a job I say. Actually all these removal business is good money. Here they have it but the better money I gather is in home delivery. We have this service here - Redmart. People order stuff and you do the delivery as a contractor. I believe they provide a van too (maybe you have to pay to rent I suppose). It's about 5 bucks per delivery, looks cheapo but I gather you have something like 30-40 deliveries a day in 1 sector. So not bad, since you're looking like at say 150-200 a day less diesel and rental.

Maybe a job some of you might try if they have something similar in Blighty. Something I would consider when I'm ready to give up the grind of office work. If you're retiree or pensioner, also not bad job to do, me thinks. Keeps you active and a bit of your own dosh, earned by your effort.