OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

So, other arguments aside - to avoid being repetitive and not because they are no longer relevant - is the latest suggestion that Brexit will go ahead because the wrath of disgruntled Brexiteers will take a more physical/violent/disruptive form than the more logical and reasoned objections of the ‘Remainers’?
Seems to be the consensus of the last two posts. Is ‘bovver boot’ politics really what we’ve come to in GB 2018?

I don't read MA's post at all like that. My take is that people are ****ed off with politicians acting like politicians and want them to be more decisive/uncompromising, more honest and more 'businesslike' in their actions. The EU is a million miles from that (and the UK govt is no great shakes either)

[macstheman]

rA continues to make strong arguments in support of 'remain', so I find it strange that my 'swingometer' is moving me point by point towards 'brexit'!!
Why could this be??
It could be that every time I see and hear Michel Barnier I want to smack him in the gob!
Such an unparalled, self centred, better than you, head up his own arse **** I have not come across for many years. He alone may make me a brexiteer and that is a pathetic reason to change my mind but.......

[ramAnag]

rA continues to make strong arguments in support of 'remain', so I find it strange that my 'swingometer' is moving me point by point towards 'brexit'!!
Why could this be??
It could be that every time I see and hear Michel Barnier I want to smack him in the gob!
Such an unparalled, self centred, better than you, head up his own arse **** I have not come across for many years. He alone may make me a brexiteer and that is a pathetic reason to change my mind but.......

Hang on mac...I have much the same reaction to Barnier, but have you not seen Gove, Johnson, Farage and Banks?

Andy...I agree with much of MA’s post too, but ultimately he’s suggesting that the way in which the Brexiteers may ‘kick off’ is a source of fear amongst the Government and MoP, who I regularly disagree with but respect, agrees.
That can’t be a reason for going through with something that looks more damaging by the day.

[MadAmster]

Hang on mac...I have much the same reaction to Barnier, but have you not seen Gove, Johnson, Farage and Banks?

Andy...I agree with much of MA’s post too, but ultimately he’s suggesting that the way in which the Brexiteers may ‘kick off’ is a source of fear amongst the Government and MoP, who I regularly disagree with but respect, agrees.
That can’t be a reason for going through with something that looks more damaging by the day.

It was just my opinion. The hardline Brexiteers were, also IMO, out in force last weekend in support of Yaxley-Lennon aka Robinson. Any deal that Mayhem makes that leaves "Brussels" with the slightest control over the UK, outside of any transition period, will see them out on the streets again demanding "full independence" in their typical anything but peaceful manner.

Also IMO, the Tory heirarchy is perfectly happy with Brexit. That will be a catalyst for many who voted OUT to change their minds. The call for a 2nd referendum, this time on the terms of the deal, will grow ever louder.

[Manofpride]

Hang on mac...I have much the same reaction to Barnier, but have you not seen Gove, Johnson, Farage and Banks?

Hey!!! Keep Farage out of it. Without his input leaving the EU would have been almost impossible. The mans a legend!

[Andy_Faber]

Hang on mac...I have much the same reaction to Barnier, but have you not seen Gove, Johnson, Farage and Banks?

Andy...I agree with much of MA’s post too, but ultimately he’s suggesting that the way in which the Brexiteers may ‘kick off’ is a source of fear amongst the Government and MoP, who I regularly disagree with but respect, agrees.
That can’t be a reason for going through with something that looks more damaging by the day.

I read that as 'kicking off' by voting the Tories out at the next election not breaking bones. That's a stark future conundrum for many individual MP's as well as their parties, do they remain 'Remain' and risk the wrath of their constituents or do they abandon their principles and tow the Brexit line, either because they feel they could still have influence in a post-Brexit world or more likely because they want to hang onto their cushy job. I was listening to the BBC4 Jeremy corbyn serial the other night and John McDonnell (who's beliefs I disagree with most of but who elocutes them so well) is totally aware that many labour MPs are in exactly that rock'n'a'Hard Place situation

[ramAnag]

I read that as 'kicking off' by voting the Tories out at the next election not breaking bones. That's a stark future conundrum for many individual MP's as well as their parties, do they remain 'Remain' and risk the wrath of their constituents or do they abandon their principles and tow the Brexit line, either because they feel they could still have influence in a post-Brexit world or more likely because they want to hang onto their cushy job. I was listening to the BBC4 Jeremy corbyn serial the other night and John McDonnell (who's beliefs I disagree with most of but who elocutes them so well) is totally aware that many labour MPs are in exactly that rock'n'a'Hard Place situation

I’m not suggesting that MA supports action of this type or supports giving into it, but when he refers to ‘rivers of blood’ and taking to the streets in a ‘typical anything but peaceful way’ I think it’s clear what he’s referring to.

I get the ‘conundrum’ on all sides but we surely cannot finally decide till the conditions and terms are known and the fact that some on the far right might take to the streets in their inimitable way surely cannot be a factor.

MoP...if you substituted ‘bell’ for ‘leg’ I’d wholeheartedly agree.

[Trickytreesreds]

So lets put the current situation into perspective.

The remainers, can't accept a democratic vote and are doing all they can to over turn it

The SNP Jocks can't accept 2 democratic votes and are doing their best over turn it.

In essence, democracy means diddly squat anymore, probably just as the EU loves it.
So in a nut shell, we can have a politically divided, confrontational society to come for decades.
No one party is ever going to dominate again. Turmoil and division will reign.
Yep, **** democracy as long as I'm alright Jack.

I'm starting to feel as bitter as the arsehole remoaners and hope this all goes tits up for years.
I personally will never vote for anything backing these lying traitors again.
You wanted chaos, you can have it for me.

[Andy_Faber]

MoP...if you substituted ‘bell’ for ‘leg’ I’d wholeheartedly agree.

I've always thought bell end to be a fantastic putdown but it's all in the delivery, ironically the sort of delivery Farage has in spades and poor George Osbourne for example would never achieve. Yet another factor that swung the vote IMO, the relative 'gravitas' of the characters involved. Not for one moment saying it SHOULD have been a factor, just that it was. Better to be swilling bitter than sounding bitter is the moral of the tale

[macstheman]

[QUOTE=ramAnag;38918397]Hang on mac...I have much the same reaction to Barnier, but have you not seen Gove, Johnson, Farage and Banks?

They are our ****heads and can be sorted within our system one way or another! Short of violence I can't do owt about snot features!!

[ramAnag]

So lets put the current situation into perspective.

The remainers, can't accept a democratic vote and are doing all they can to over turn it

The SNP Jocks can't accept 2 democratic votes and are doing their best over turn it.

In essence, democracy means diddly squat anymore, probably just as the EU loves it.
So in a nut shell, we can have a politically divided, confrontational society to come for decades.
No one party is ever going to dominate again. Turmoil and division will reign.
Yep, **** democracy as long as I'm alright Jack.

I'm starting to feel as bitter as the arsehole remoaners and hope this all goes tits up for years.
I personally will never vote for anything backing these lying traitors again.
You wanted chaos, you can have it for me.

I do get tired of the Brexiteer shriek...’if you don’t support Brexit you don’t support democracy’! It’s an utter nonsense.
The definition of democracy is the ruling of a society or organisation by the majority of it’s members...the majority of society (electorate) did not vote in favour of Brexit and as for Scotland and N. Ireland...they were overwhelmingly against it.

Coupled with the fact that just under two years ago people didn’t have a clue about the implications of what they were voting for and one may see how ridiculous the whole circus has been and continues to be.

You hope ‘this all goes tits up for years’ do you Tricky? Truly helpful comment and all too typical of the divisive negativity which has always been a hallmark of the Brexitears.

[Andy_Faber]

I the majority of society (electorate) did not vote in favour of Brexit and as for Scotland and N. Ireland...they were overwhelmingly against it.

Statto Calling! Sorry you are hoisted by you own petard on this RA, only 41% of those eligible to vote in Scotland voted Remain

[ramAnag]

Statto Calling! Sorry you are hoisted by you own petard on this RA, only 41% of those eligible to vote in Scotland voted Remain

Sorry Andy...I thought the Scottish vote was 62%-38% with overall ‘victory’ for Remain in every single council area but I bow to your superior knowledge of Scottish matters...well Mrs.F’s anyway.
If I’m wrong I stand corrected, but the Scottish and N.Ireland majority in favour of ‘Remain’ was significantly greater than the English ‘majority’ to leave was it not? So playing the ‘democracy’ card where Scotland is concerned doesn’t really work...indeed it doesn’t actually work in relation to Brexit at all imo.

[Trickytreesreds]

I do get tired of the Brexiteer shriek...’if you don’t support Brexit you don’t support democracy’! It’s an utter nonsense.
The definition of democracy is the ruling of a society or organisation by the majority of it’s members...the majority of society (electorate) did not vote in favour of Brexit and as for Scotland and N. Ireland...they were overwhelmingly against it.

Coupled with the fact that just under two years ago people didn’t have a clue about the implications of what they were voting for and one may see how ridiculous the whole circus has been and continues to be.

You hope ‘this all goes tits up for years’ do you Tricky? Truly helpful comment and all too typical of the divisive negativity which has always been a hallmark of the Brexitears.

What utter tosh of reasoning you imply.

By your definition, NO VOTE EVER, can be accepted again.

we was asked in or out? If you didn't look into that, then you really was a retard. If in doubt, leave it alone.
But the majority of voters said out! Of those that voted, THAT WAS THE MAJORITY, not what you perceive it to be.

Scotland had an independence vote. The majority who voted, wanted to stay part of the Union. The SNP have cried about it ever since. But like you, they won't accept a result either and made it quite clear, it WOULD BE revisited.

So Scotland and Ireland, as part of the UK voted for a majority decision. What next by your definition?
The peoples republic of London?

No, you babies won't accept it. So cause as much chaos as you like. The leavers won't accept it either.
Even if you overturned everything, the leavers would cause chaos politically.
I predict another party rise and can see folks voting for it on principle alone.
So let it go tits up. You and your ilk seem to think it's your way or the highway and the world is wrong. Well it swings in roundabouts sunshine.
I can be as negative as you, id the mood takes me. I wanted us to see this as decided and move on. But no.
So chaos is what you will get. In fact lets go the whole hog and break up the union.
We've been subsidizing the rest of it for decades.

Its you who I'm afraid who has fueled diversity. So be it.

[ramAnag]

What utter tosh of reasoning you imply.

By your definition, NO VOTE EVER, can be accepted again.

we was asked in or out? If you didn't look into that, then you really was a retard. If in doubt, leave it alone.
But the majority of voters said out! Of those that voted, THAT WAS THE MAJORITY, not what you perceive it to be.

Scotland had an independence vote. The majority who voted, wanted to stay part of the Union. The SNP have cried about it ever since. But like you, they won't accept a result either and made it quite clear, it WOULD BE revisited.

So Scotland and Ireland, as part of the UK voted for a majority decision. What next by your definition?
The peoples republic of London?

No, you babies won't accept it. So cause as much chaos as you like. The leavers won't accept it either.
Even if you overturned everything, the leavers would cause chaos politically.
I predict another party rise and can see folks voting for it on principle alone.
So let it go tits up. You and your ilk seem to think it's your way or the highway and the world is wrong. Well it swings in roundabouts sunshine.
I can be as negative as you, id the mood takes me. I wanted us to see this as decided and move on. But no.
So chaos is what you will get. In fact lets go the whole hog and break up the union.
We've been subsidizing the rest of it for decades.

Its you who I'm afraid who has fueled diversity. So be it.

Oops...you seem a bit flustered Tricky...things not going according to plan?
Must be my day for upsetting Forest fans...such is life.
Won’t comment on the Scottish independence vote...a) it’s irrelevant to this thread and b) it’s got little to do with me.
I don’t know about us ‘babies’...seems to be you who has chucked his toys out of the pram with your latest rant.
You may be right about a new party...maybe even two, but, unlike you, I hope it’s productive and that things don’t descend into ‘chaos’.
You might also want to check out the difference between ‘diversity’ and divisiveness before referring to others as ‘retards’...and while you’re at it, explain why those who supported Brexit continue to try and describe themselves as the ‘voice of the people’.