OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Manofpride]

Did the remainers know what they were voting for?

[Ram59]

It's not going to be plain sailing, but there are 2 sides to every argument. Just looking at a couple of situations.

Remainers talk as if trade with the EU would suddenly stop completely. If we had to resort to wto tariffs, because of the depreciation of the pound our prices would still be lower than 2 years ago. Remember goods from the EU would also attract tariffs bringing in greater revenue to our government than we send out.

My son hears scare stories at JLR about the tariffs hitting car sales in the EU. But JLR is massively outsold in this country by the likes of Audi, VW, Mercedes, BMW, etc. Surely JLR sales will increase in this country when all their competitors have to increase prices.this income for the government could be spent on subsidising industry and /or spending on the NHS.

As I've said many times, any bad deal will cost the EU more than the UK, but less proportionally. Importantly though, is the fact that the UK tariffs are negated by by the deflation of the pound, whilst eu goods more expensive because of the euro will become even more expensive with tariffs. Businesses throughout the EU are dreading a no deal.

[ramAnag]

Did the remainers know what they were voting for?

Clearly they knew more because they weren’t voting for a journey into the unknown but I take your point and those made by Ram59.
My point remains that most people were ill informed and misled. For me that brings the validity of the result into question but it makes a pleasant change to argue with with reasonable people on both sides who don’t just deal in rants and accusations.

P.S. Haven’t JLR just opted to move from the Midlands to Slovakia, Ram?

[Ram59]

Clearly they knew more because they weren’t voting for a journey into the unknown but I take your point and those made by Ram59.
My point remains that most people were ill informed and misled. For me that brings the validity of the result into question but it makes a pleasant change to argue with with reasonable people on both sides who don’t just deal in rants and accusations.

P.S. Haven’t JLR just opted to move from the Midlands to Slovakia, Ram?

They're transferring production of the some current vehicles to Slovakia, so they can free up space and labour to produce future electric and hydride vehicles in this country, which is where the future lies.

[ramAnag]

See the Director of the Institute of Fiscal Studies is saying that Maggie May’s pronouncements on the NHS benefitting from a ‘Brexit Dividend’ is...to paraphrase...utter bollux.
As far as I know the IFS is a politically independent organisation which specialises in ‘doing the maths’. Glad the NHS is getting some more money but I do wish the politicians would stop their shameless lies.

[Manofpride]

I do wish the politicians would stop their shameless lies.

I thought it was part of their job description!

[ramAnag]

I thought it was part of their job description!

You’re right of course...but Brexit was caused by the previous Tory PM trying to assert control over his Party and most of the current moves seem to be about the future of the existing PM rather than the future of the country. Fed up of it.

[Manofpride]

Got to admit although I want out, it's turning into a circus with extra clowns. I can't believe whats going on? what a bloody shambles it's turning into!

[ramAnag]

Got to admit although I want out, it's turning into a circus with extra clowns. I can't believe whats going on? what a bloody shambles it's turning into!

You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear MoP and this has been a right pig’s ear from the beginning.

[Ram59]

See the Director of the Institute of Fiscal Studies is saying that Maggie May’s pronouncements on the NHS benefitting from a ‘Brexit Dividend’ is...to paraphrase...utter bollux.
As far as I know the IFS is a politically independent organisation which specialises in ‘doing the maths’. Glad the NHS is getting some more money but I do wish the politicians would stop their shameless lies.

This is the same director who said a week before the brexit vote that a vote to leave would result in an immediate fall in the stock market, a fall in investment and employment etc. He may be independent, but his ability to forecast is as bad as everyone else.

BTW, May is claiming that only part of the money will come from brexit and tax increases will have to be paid for the rest.

[Andy_Faber]

You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear MoP and this has been a right pig’s ear from the beginning.

Au contraire, IMO the UK and EU govts have turned it into a snafu by being politicians, not looking for the deal. It could have been so simple. Ironically the big issue that EU would not move on (well one of two) might well be the issue that brings it down

[ramAnag]

Au contraire, IMO the UK and EU govts have turned it into a snafu by being politicians, not looking for the deal. It could have been so simple. Ironically the big issue that EU would not move on (well one of two) might well be the issue that brings it down

Agree that politicians manage to make a snafu of just about everything Andy, but one thing this could never have been was ‘simple’.
Dubious referendum result costs the political careers of the PM and Chancellor (albeit dreadful ones), followed by the appointment of ‘Remain’ supporting new PM and Chancellor to oversee a process which many of the public and most politicians and economic experts don’t believe in while antagonising our European neighbours and being constantly sniped at by the Foreign Secretary...never, ever simple.

P.S. Sadly Ram, Paul Johnson’s prediction’s weren’t that far off. Have you seen any recent economic forecasts? They seem a great deal more gloomy than they did a little over two years ago.

[Ram59]

Agree that politicians manage to make a snafu of just about everything Andy, but one thing this could never have been was ‘simple’.
Dubious referendum result costs the political careers of the PM and Chancellor (albeit dreadful ones), followed by the appointment of ‘Remain’ supporting new PM and Chancellor to oversee a process which many of the public and most politicians and economic experts don’t believe in while antagonising our European neighbours and being constantly sniped at by the Foreign Secretary...never, ever simple.

P.S. Sadly Ram, Paul Johnson’s prediction’s weren’t that far off. Have you seen any recent economic forecasts? They seem a great deal more gloomy than they did a little over two years ago.

I have to disagree, those forecasts before the vote were for an immediate reaction after the vote which simply did not happen. Why should we take any more notice of forcasts from the same people now?

Most forcasts have been proven wrong over the years, even current economic stats which have shown the country to be in recession and even a double dip recession, have been proven to be wrong a couple of years later.

Forcasts are an estimate from various indicators and assumptions, not fact.

The way I see brexit is that, hopefully, the grownups on both sides will see that it will be beneficial to both sides to continue to interact in a similar way to now but with the UK having a greater degree of independence. The EU will lose some of our contributions but get rid of a thorn in its side. We'll have to pay some of our contribution but with no say, but will have greater freedom. That is win win.

Remainers only see an end to all dealings with the EU, which would result in severe damage to our economy. This will not happen because to many industries throughout the EU rely on the UK.

[MadAmster]

I can see Dutch companies starting to put the same sort of pressure on the Dutch Government that German ones are putting on Merkel. 2017 Trade figures were released today. The Dutch made €22.7 BILLION profit in 2017 in their trade with the UK. They aren't going to want that damaging as it is the Dutch and the Germans who will pick up most of the bill to fill the hole in the EU budget that the UK's leaving will create. The Dutch already have one the highest taxation rates in the world. It can't go up by a lot, if at all, or people will have less to spend, profits will fall and VAT and other tax income will fall.......

There could have been a deal thrashed out that would have suited just about everyone, both in the UK and the EU. Thanks to those involved in what they laughingly refer to as "negotiations" have well and trult kerfuffed it up. All to save their own face. Mayhem et al on the UK side and Banier, Juncker et al on the EU side.

The solution? I wish I had one other than getting rid of the dumbasses doing the talking and putting some "real people" in there as opposed to the puppets we currently have.

[ramAnag]

I have to disagree, those forecasts before the vote were for an immediate reaction after the vote which simply did not happen. Why should we take any more notice of forcasts from the same people now?

Most forcasts have been proven wrong over the years, even current economic stats which have shown the country to be in recession and even a double dip recession, have been proven to be wrong a couple of years later.

Forcasts are an estimate from various indicators and assumptions, not fact.

The way I see brexit is that, hopefully, the grownups on both sides will see that it will be beneficial to both sides to continue to interact in a similar way to now but with the UK having a greater degree of independence. The EU will lose some of our contributions but get rid of a thorn in its side. We'll have to pay some of our contribution but with no say, but will have greater freedom. That is win win.

Remainers only see an end to all dealings with the EU, which would result in severe damage to our economy. This will not happen because to many industries throughout the EU rely on the UK.

Can only say, I would love you to be right Ram but I have my doubts. Unfortunately most of the financial ‘experts’ seem to be similarly doubtful.
Not sure how old you are but, at 64, if Brexit goes ahead I’m not expecting a recovery during my life time.