OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[MadAmster]

OK. Let's forget the nuances of how much time might be saved etc. Surely, the whole point of HS2 was to help kickstart the "Northern Powerhouse" to make the Midlands and the North more productive, more prosperous. To improve life there, basically. It is, after all, the North and the Midlands that have been the hardest hit by the Tory destruction of the UK's manufacturing industry.

Are the Tories now saying the Midlands and the North aren't worth regenerating? That's what it sounds like.

[ramAnag]

I’m with GP on this one. Even if HS2 would cut the journey times from London to Birmingham and Manchester by as much as MA suggests how is that going to ‘kickstart’ the Northern Powerhouse?
Is an hour here or there going to make that much difference? Surely a vast amount of high powered meetings now are conducted by video link conference calls. Maybe if they spent a fraction of the money on sorting the internet connection out on existing trains as well as making them more comfortable, safe and reliable the problem would be solved.

P.S. Tricky, my point was that your Labour bashing comment originated from 1965!

[Geoff Parkstone]

And what is this "Powerhouse" anyway? Sounds like a battery retailer?

Surely no one is suggesting the rebuilding of our manufacturing industry? That's a long lost cause

I genuinely don't get how, a slightly quicker railway can significantly help develop regional growth

[AngryRam]

OK. Let's forget the nuances of how much time might be saved etc. Surely, the whole point of HS2 was to help kickstart the "Northern Powerhouse" to make the Midlands and the North more productive, more prosperous. To improve life there, basically. It is, after all, the North and the Midlands that have been the hardest hit by the Tory destruction of the UK's manufacturing industry.

Are the Tories now saying the Midlands and the North aren't worth regenerating? That's what it sounds like.

It's not just the speed, it is also capacity as well. It will take inter city trains off the main line network and free up space for better services between northern cities.
It will (has) generated jobs and stability for a lot of workers. Local businesses will benefit from supporting the project.
Our rail system is victorian, we need to do something. Why are we so anti investment?

[ramAnag]

Not ‘anti investment’ at all, Angry...all for investment, in areas such as health, education, farming (including rewilding), road networks and surfaces, sewerage, affordable housing and public transport. Just asking if HS2 justifies the prioritisation it has received.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I agree rA, can't help but feel that there a way better uses for that money in improving our rail infrastructure and rollingstock. I am a great believer in public transport and would love to see those personal transport pods known as cars sidelined in favour of better train/tram/bus networks.

But ever since Beeching in the 60s more and more people are being taken out of rail network access, particularly in rural areas. Spend the money on restoring the greater network and give access to more users, not to an elite city to city traveller.

It will be interesting to see if HS2 actually spreads jobs and opens up the North and Midlands to economic revival as suggested. But I suspect that the shorter journey times will simply lead to people commuting to London from ever further away.

Furthermore, the incidence of remote and home working continues to rise and, it may come as a shock to government, there are things called laptops, mobile phones, videotech and so on which both mean you "don't need to be there to do it" and "you can work on the train".

It just makes no sense to me. Channel the investment better

[Andy_Faber]

Whilst on about white elephants. There has been non bigger than that by the labour government scrapping the TSR-2 in 1965. It was light years ahead of anything on the planet and could have made us a fortune. But Labour being labour scrapped it, leaving the door open for the yanks. All that money wasted on development.

Totally agree about TSR-2

[Andy_Faber]

IMO on balance it doesn’t but that’s no my issue, which is that from minute 1 it has been a gravy train for big business in the business areas concerned, I’ve sat in offices in the Birmingham area where people were wandering round looking for something to do whilst on an hourly rate being invoiced through the corporations that recruited them to gov.uk so intimately you and I

[AngryRam]

Not ‘anti investment’ at all, Angry...all for investment, in areas such as health, education, farming (including rewilding), road networks and surfaces, sewerage, affordable housing and public transport. Just asking if HS2 justifies the prioritisation it has received.

Rewilding.. We have too many trees as it is Build a car park, that's what we do down sarf.

I know very little about HS2, so you lot could be right. One thing I know for sure is that it is not all about 10 mins off a journey time. Of the options you have quoted above, I would go for the tangible ones. Roads, public transport.
I quite like the fact that UKPLC is investing in big ticket engineering projects. Don't get me started on the 3rd runway at LHR which is absolutely crucial.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Don't get me started on the 3rd runway at LHR which is absolutely crucial.

Hmmm, sounds like someone has a high value CPO on his house plus extra compensation if the new runway happens!

[AngryRam]

Hmmm, sounds like someone has a high value CPO on his house plus extra compensation if the new runway happens!

Who Me ????

Might be right through my office though

[swaledale]

Isn't the London - Manchester time supposed to reduce from 2 hours to 1 hour on HS2? That's not a few minutes.

What about HS2 being the basis of the Northern Powerhouse... or will all the money be spent on bloody Southerners again?

Its also about freeing up capacity in the existing network, fast passenger trains and slower freight don't mix, of course its cack handed in the planning and for some reason will be double the budget, but then european countries have been there done that and got their high speed lines, the UK lags behind as always.

[AngryRam]

Its also about freeing up capacity in the existing network, fast passenger trains and slower freight don't mix, of course its cack handed in the planning and for some reason will be double the budget, but then european countries have been there done that and got their high speed lines, the UK lags behind as always.

We agree on something ...

[ramAnag]

Well, well, well...away from HS2 and back to the B-word.
So the Queen is now to be asked to prorogue Parliament from 9th September...funny that...wasn’t Brexit largely about our sovereignty and the sovereignty of our British Parliament?
So what’s the next step...probably dreamt up by the completely unelected and wholly undemocratic Cummings creature? Suspend that very same Parliament. Bonkers!

[Geoff Parkstone]

A couple of observations. I think, from my perspective, Brexit was about the sovereignty of the British democratic system. That system incorporates some largely archaic powers of the monarchy, so no problems with HRH getting dragged into this BUT I think she would be well advised to keep out of it, if possible.

Cummings - I know he is the devil incarnate to you rA, but is his involvement that different to the roles of senior civil servants, who are appointed not elected, and advisory rather than decision making? Unlike the Commission which has more power than the civil service here.