OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Because, as you indicate, GP's comment was 'funny', and as mod I assessed that it would be taken by TTR as (that famous phrase) just a bit of joshing, so took no action. Swale has been on the subject repeatedly and, again in my assessment, pointedly, so I took action. As it happens I've spoken to TTR about it and as a result I willwait for him to complain in future.

What you don't see rA are complaints about forum members which I've taken no action on when maybe I should including a number who've since left the forum or gone permanently silent after those complaints

Fair enough. Your opinion...none of it really remotely relevant to why Swale (or I...by implication) were ‘factually and significantly wrong’.

[swaledale]

But I was responding to Swale, who wrote 'Not even all of those who regularly post voted remain' Factually and significantly wrong.

I'm intrigued AF, how is the above statement "factually and significantly wrong"?

[Andy_Faber]

Yet again trying to take some of the partisan nature out of this discussion: someone a few days ago asked if any of us had seen ANY positives from Brexit. Here’s a small (as most will be) success story, and actually it is from rA’s manor, Derbyshire Dales (just). We spent a great evening at an independent pub/restaurant (part of a ‘chain’ of three) which was bloody heaving inside and out despite the poor weather. We got talking to the manager who was full of praise for the staff, all but one from the local village ‘born and bred’ and compared their impact favourably with the predominantly Eastern European staff he employed pre Brexit. Less likely to job hop for 5p per hour rises elsewhere, ate/drank in the pub when not on shift, dragged in significant family and friends, and many lifelong acquaintanceships between them created a ‘team spirit’ that pervaded the pub and its clientele. Significant also has been less squabbles about tips. The manager reported big increase in takings although he did say that might be partly Covid savings being burned off. Just to even it up a bit he confirmed waste disposal has been a nightmare…

[Geoff Parkstone]

Not sure that's a success of Brexit Andy. more a reflection of his poor previous choice to lowball his weekly wage bill pre Brexit by using cheaper EU staff! Had he just employed local staff to start with, Brexit would have had no impact

[swaledale]

Yet again trying to take some of the partisan nature out of this discussion: someone a few days ago asked if any of us had seen ANY positives from Brexit. Here’s a small (as most will be) success story, and actually it is from rA’s manor, Derbyshire Dales (just). We spent a great evening at an independent pub/restaurant (part of a ‘chain’ of three) which was bloody heaving inside and out despite the poor weather. We got talking to the manager who was full of praise for the staff, all but one from the local village ‘born and bred’ and compared their impact favourably with the predominantly Eastern European staff he employed pre Brexit. Less likely to job hop for 5p per hour rises elsewhere, ate/drank in the pub when not on shift, dragged in significant family and friends, and many lifelong acquaintanceships between them created a ‘team spirit’ that pervaded the pub and its clientele. Significant also has been less squabbles about tips. The manager reported big increase in takings although he did say that might be partly Covid savings being burned off. Just to even it up a bit he confirmed waste disposal has been a nightmare…

Ah so not able to answer the question posed by rA and myself then? par for the course make a statement that clearly isn't true, then avoid explaining why you thought it was!

Of course if you can confidently post stuff that is so obviously incorrect, that does beg the question as to how factually correct your other posts are.

As for your anecdotal story, again not sure how thats a benefit of Brexit, presumably the landlord could have employed local people before?

I can provide an equally anecdotal story about when I helped a guy set up a factory near Barnsley, with the aim of providing skilled well paid jobs for redundant miners. Despite his best efforts to employ local people, the workforce ended up being 55% non UK, because in his words, they were the most reliable and wanted to work and develop their skills.

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure that's a success of Brexit Andy. more a reflection of his poor previous choice to lowball his weekly wage bill pre Brexit by using cheaper EU staff! Had he just employed local staff to start with, Brexit would have had no impact

I’ll concede that, but if not for Brexit it would have stayed that way

[swaledale]

I’ll concede that, but if not for Brexit it would have stayed that way

So your still not addressing your incorrect statement that I was ‘factually and significantly wrong’, when of course that was clearly not the case.

I've had this before where you make an incorrect statement, I challenge it and ask you to explain how you came to that conclusion and I might be wrong, but I don't remember you ever either explaining why you made the comment or merely admitting that you were wrong.

So on this occasion perhaps you could show that your able to admit you were wrong?

[swaledale]

Not sure that's a success of Brexit Andy. more a reflection of his poor previous choice to lowball his weekly wage bill pre Brexit by using cheaper EU staff! Had he just employed local staff to start with, Brexit would have had no impact

Not sure how he could ahve used "cheaper" EU staff? If he was complying with the law, he would be paying at least minimum wage, therefore whoever he employed would all be earning the same.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Not sure how he could ahve used "cheaper" EU staff? If he was complying with the law, he would be paying at least minimum wage, therefore whoever he employed would all be earning the same.

Yeah right, because everybody complies with minimum wage rules for cash in hand work dont they?

[swaledale]

Yeah right, because everybody complies with minimum wage rules for cash in hand work dont they?

So your assuming that post Brexit, the landlord does now?

Also if cash in hand then possibly more attractive to locals given they could do that work in addition to their regular job?


But if we are dealing with a bust establishment with regular staff, then at least some of them would need to be on the books, indeed it would not be in the landlord's interest not to do this as wages are a business cost. counts against tax.

By the wat AF I'm still waiting for you to admit you were wrong, given your self styled reasonable man persona!

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure how he could ahve used "cheaper" EU staff? If he was complying with the law, he would be paying at least minimum wage, therefore whoever he employed would all be earning the same.

Your entrenched worldview lets you down again. In this particular case the former and latter staff were all paid above minimum wage, and on the books, and the resultant high pricing seemed not to have put the punters off.

[swaledale]

Your entrenched worldview lets you down again. In this particular case the former and latter staff were all paid above minimum wage, and on the books, and the resultant high pricing seemed not to have put the punters off.

Eh no! I refer you to my post #7913 Not sure how he could have used "cheaper" EU staff? If he was complying with the law, he would be paying at least minimum wage, therefore whoever he employed would all be earning the same.

It was GP who poured scorn on MY suggestion that this was the case, so hardly "my entrenched world view"

So wrong again.

Thats twice in this thread in the last few posts - not that you have acknowledged that your previous statement that I was
‘factually and significantly wrong’, to state "that not even all those who still post regularly voted remain" was incorrect because at least one poster voted Leave.

I look forward to the acknowledgement from you of your errors.

[swaledale]

How is Swale ‘factually and significantly wrong’?
It really doesn’t matter...I just find it interesting that you can’t let anything Swale writes go and even last week allowed a GP ‘slur’ (albeit quite a funny one) about Tricky’s Thai ‘adventures’ to go completely uncommented upon when you’d probably have been threatening Swale with all sorts of bans had he made the same comment.

For the record...Swale suggested (and I agreed) that ‘not even all those who regularly post voted remain'. That is true...Tricky certainly didn’t, MA - who’s view I completely understand - couldn’t. That means that, ‘not even all those who regularly post voted remain’ and therefore Swale is not ‘factually and significantly wrong’.

As I said...it’s actually not very important to me and Swale is more than capable of fighting his own battles, but I really don’t know why you’re having such difficulty with being wrong.

rA since when did Af ever admit he was wrong? Even when he clearly is? He isn't man enough to do that.

[ramAnag]

rA since when did Af ever admit he was wrong? Even when he clearly is? He isn't man enough to do that.

Believe it or not, Swale, I really don’t like the personal stuff on here which is, slightly perversely, why I commented as I did.

The argument started because Andy questioned the point of your comment by trying to make out that everyone on here voted Remain which is demonstrably incorrect.
It certainly wasn’t true back in 2016 and in the intervening period only you and I, along with MA who has a slightly different perspective, have consistently questioned the ‘wisdom’ of Brexit.

In the same way as the current questioning of the PM’s behaviour isn’t really about whether he attended certain events but rather about the fact that he appears to have repeatedly lied, so it is with those who cannot accept being in the wrong. We all make mistakes and we are all ‘wrong’ at times but when people are so reluctant to accept their fallibility, even over such clear cut issues as this, it does, as you suggest, only make taking them seriously over the bigger and more complex issues much more difficult.

I suspect the truth is that both AF and GP would like the Brexit thread to ‘disappear’ because as each day passes their defence/support looks ever more forlorn. Beyond that...time to move on. More important (or maybe ‘immediate’) things to concern myself with.

[Ramshank72]

As an outsider to this thread, the last dozen or so pages (that was a fun read - not) doesn't appear to have any Derby fans defending Brexit. Just 2 remainers getting upset about 2 other remainers who aren't upset, because the latter have moved on and don't seem to care much for the spurious "I told you so" antics that some people are so desperate to claim.
Time to move on.