OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

As an outsider to this thread, the last dozen or so pages (that was a fun read - not) doesn't appear to have any Derby fans defending Brexit. Just 2 remainers getting upset about 2 other remainers who aren't upset, because the latter have moved on and don't seem to care much for the spurious "I told you so" antics that some people are so desperate to claim.
Time to move on.

Nailed it

[ramAnag]

Nailed it

Really? Lol...I suspect not.

1) Brexit isn’t a ‘fun’ topic so why would it ever be a ‘fun read’
2) Where is there any suggestion that either Swale or I are ‘upset’.
3) Who’s saying ‘I told you so’?

You like the post only because it’s sympathetic to your stance, AF and doesn’t continue the theme of the last two or three days which you are obviously and understandably uncomfortable with.

Ramshank is perhaps right about one thing. As I’ve already acknowledged , moving on - in the short term and from the increasingly narrow and personal perspective of this forum - is probably the right thing. Longer term, and in the wider context however, there is unlikely to be much ‘moving on’ and the arguments about Brexit will continue to rage because it will continue to have an impact on our economy, our quality of life, our relationship with other Europeans and our place on the ‘world stage’.

Interestingly I hear ‘time to move on’ as an increasingly popular battlecry from the PM and his supporters. It tends to be something that people say when they want to shift attention from an argument they’re losing.

[Trickytreesreds]

Really? Lol...I suspect not.

1) Brexit isn’t a ‘fun’ topic so why would it ever be a ‘fun read’
2) Where is there any suggestion that either Swale or I are ‘upset’.
3) Who’s saying ‘I told you so’?

You like the post only because it’s sympathetic to your stance, AF and doesn’t continue the theme of the last two or three days which you are obviously and understandably uncomfortable with.

Ramshank is perhaps right about one thing. As I’ve already acknowledged , moving on - in the short term and from the increasingly narrow and personal perspective of this forum - is probably the right thing. Longer term, and in the wider context however, there is unlikely to be much ‘moving on’ and the arguments about Brexit will continue to rage because it will continue to have an impact on our economy, our quality of life, our relationship with other Europeans and our place on the ‘world stage’.

Interestingly I hear ‘time to move on’ as an increasingly popular battlecry from the PM and his supporters. It tends to be something that people say when they want to shift attention from an argument they’re losing.

RA, I nailed my colours to the mast from day one and have never changed.
Despite all the accusations of believing lies etc, it in no way swayed my decision.

I have also said, I was in this for the long game.
I expected things to be worse for a while and that stance hasn't changed.
We have had nearly 50 years of being sucked into a superstate and it was now or never.
You may have been comfortable with that, I certainly wasn't.
You do not undo a ravelling of that scale over night either.

I look back on many things. My favourite for me, still has to be 2014 Nick Cleggs, "talk about a European army is just fantasy"
To Macron/ Verhofstadts present day stance of NATO is dead and we have to have a European army

Funny though, how old feelings of preservation come back to the surface when things get sticky. After years of EU interferance in the Ukraine, where is the "one voice" now?

Germany has shut the **** up and France has turned back into a squeaky mouse. Why because Putin worries them and holds the gas valve in his hands.

Better out than in.

[Andy_Faber]

Really? Lol...I suspect not.

1) Brexit isn’t a ‘fun’ topic so why would it ever be a ‘fun read’
2) Where is there any suggestion that either Swale or I are ‘upset’.
3) Who’s saying ‘I told you so’?

1) I'm guessing Ramshank is expecting the reader to interpret the word 'fun', and my reading of it is was 'interesting, enlightening, worth persevering with' (which he's right, it wasn't) but its been obvious that any injection of humour/'joshing' in this thread has been ill-received by 'some' - ah well

2) The suggestion is from Ramshank, no reason to second-guess his observation as far as I'm concerned

3) Give over

[swaledale]

Nailed it

Well thats a matter of opinion, you are of course entitled to yours as is Ramshank, but as point of fact I'd say that first, neither rA or myself started this thread. It was started in triumphal fashion by a Brexit supporter who mysteriously went silent soon after.

As rA correctly says, this idea of "moving on" is a tactic often used by people when they do not wish there to be close examination of a something which may embarrass them.

Neither rA or myself are upset, we are just having the most fun showing how virtually everything said by those who supported Brexit was completely false, Thicky is so dumb he persists in repeating said falsehoods, as if saying the same lie over and over again makes it true - well I guess he is just following what the Trump's Johnsons and other right wing authoritarian leaders have been doing. Telling so many lies, that it confuses people, to the extent that they can't be bothered to work it out and want to "just move on"!

AS for me I'm quite well aware that whatever I say and however correct it may be for the fools that supported Brexit, they won't change their view, to do so would admit being wrong.

Which brings me back to you Mr Moderator. Whatever credibility and supposed high morals I might have thought you possessed I am clear now that you don't.

A difference of opinion is fine, saying things in a post which are clearly wrong is another matter and generally people of integrity acknowledge when they ahve said something incorrect.

I refer you to my post #7913 Not sure how he could have used "cheaper" EU staff? If he was complying with the law, he would be paying at least minimum wage, therefore whoever he employed would all be earning the same.

It was GP who poured scorn on MY suggestion that this was the case, so hardly "my entrenched world view"

So wrong again.

Thats twice in this thread in the last few posts - not that you have acknowledged that your previous statement that I was
‘factually and significantly wrong’, to state "that not even all those who still post regularly voted remain" was incorrect because at least one poster voted Leave.

I look forward to the acknowledgement from you of your errors.

Not really your too much of a straw man for that!

[swaledale]

RA, I nailed my colours to the mast from day one and have never changed.
Despite all the accusations of believing lies etc, it in no way swayed my decision.

I have also said, I was in this for the long game.
I expected things to be worse for a while and that stance hasn't changed.
We have had nearly 50 years of being sucked into a superstate and it was now or never.
You may have been comfortable with that, I certainly wasn't.
You do not undo a ravelling of that scale over night either.

I look back on many things. My favourite for me, still has to be 2014 Nick Cleggs, "talk about a European army is just fantasy"
To Macron/ Verhofstadts present day stance of NATO is dead and we have to have a European army

Funny though, how old feelings of preservation come back to the surface when things get sticky. After years of EU interferance in the Ukraine, where is the "one voice" now?

Germany has shut the **** up and France has turned back into a squeaky mouse. Why because Putin worries them and holds the gas valve in his hands.

Better out than in.

Absolutely old boy, but then Thicky its been obvious for a long time that you haven't a ****ing clue what your talking about so thankfully nobody cares what you say. PS Hope Thailand was fun!

[Trickytreesreds]

Absolutely old boy, but then Thicky its been obvious for a long time that you haven't a ****ing clue what your talking about so thankfully nobody cares what you say. PS Hope Thailand was fun!

You really are a poor excuse for a human being closet racist.
Do you really believe that anyone takes a blind bit of notice of your rants?
They are akin to a Hitler speech from Nurnberg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3N_2r6R-o

[Geoff Parkstone]

2) Where is there any suggestion that either Swale or I are ‘upset’. you're 'avin a larf aren't you. Probably 50% of the 7000+ posts on this thread are you expressing upset, rage, agst, negativity etc etc about Brexit. Honestly you've got less chance of an arbitration panel ruling in your favour on tis comment than Middlebro have of winning their £ 45 million

3) Who’s saying ‘I told you so’?..........I dont think we need to go back many posts to see exactly this happening, as part of a long, mostly Swale led, trail saying exactly this. And he did tell us, no doubt, but he's still only 1-0 up after about 7 minutes, or perhaps 2-0 in fairness.


.....unlikely to be much ‘moving on’ and the arguments about Brexit will continue to rage because it will continue to have an impact on our economy, our quality of life, our relationship with other Europeans and our place on the ‘world stage’

It will continue to influence all of those aspects for many years to come rA, but not necessarily long term for the worse. Time will be the judge of the efficacy of Brexit, not you and Swale points scoring after 15 months, mudded by adding COVID into the equation. I genuinely don't know how it will pan out: the two of you doom mongers might be proven right. But for those of us taking a more measured perspective. who knows.

[ramAnag]

It will continue to influence all of those aspects for many years to come rA, but not necessarily long term for the worse. Time will be the judge of the efficacy of Brexit, not you and Swale points scoring after 15 months, mudded by adding COVID into the equation. I genuinely don't know how it will pan out: the two of you doom mongers might be proven right. But for those of us taking a more measured perspective. who knows.

I’m sorry GP...I thought Ramshank was talking about recent pages...the last dozen or so I think he mentioned...not all 793!
Of course I was angry, disappointed, shocked to begin with...I don’t deny it...but I don’t believe there’s been any evidence of my ‘upset’ about the issue in recent times...I’ve simply pointed out a few facts.

As for the ‘I told you so’s’. Maybe Swale has pointed out that there are a few ‘chickens coming home to roost’...it’s not difficult...but is that very different from Andy banging on about the virtues of the born and bred over his favourite villains those pesky Eastern European’s?

I ‘genuinely don’t know how it will pan out either’ and I hope your occasional bouts of optimism are well founded. I’m not sure about me/us being ‘doom mongers’ though. I’ve long thought Brexit was a bloody stupid exercise in national self harm and I’ve seen nothing to change my mind. Does it constitute doom mongering to stick with that conclusion or am I just being realistic in the same way as you are when you describe Derby’s fate as being virtually sealed. Some would describe it as ‘doom mongering’...others as realism.

Either way...about a week or so ago you and AF were asked to provide some examples of Brexit benefits. Andy came up with the one I’ve already mentioned, which even you questioned as having any validity, and you’ve come up with nothing at all.

P.S. I don’t think I posted on this thread between mid November and AF talking nonsense about a week ago.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I cannot give you any positives as its way too early to count the scores on the doors. There were always going to be up front teething problems but whether, longer term, they have any traction, its way to early to tell. Also how do you measure the feel good factor arising from being out from underneath the EU longer term vision and unification?

I don't doubt there will be those disappointed by not seeing tighter border control, the expulsion of Eastern Europeans and the "we've got our jobs back" (NB that we don't want to do for those wages) and thus there will be disappointed brexiteers who believed the marketing BS such as the bus, but for those of us that are aligning our hopes on the longer term freedom from EU rule, we will just have to wait. We could be dead before we "see" these benefits, if indeed we ever do

[ramAnag]

I cannot give you any positives as its way too early to count the scores on the doors. There were always going to be up front teething problems but whether, longer term, they have any traction, its way to early to tell. Also how do you measure the feel good factor arising from being out from underneath the EU longer term vision and unification?

I don't doubt there will be those disappointed by not seeing tighter border control, the expulsion of Eastern Europeans and the "we've got our jobs back" (NB that we don't want to do for those wages) and thus there will be disappointed brexiteers who believed the marketing BS such as the bus, but for those of us that are aligning our hopes on the longer term freedom from EU rule, we will just have to wait. We could be dead before we "see" these benefits, if indeed we ever do

I genuinely and honestly don’t recognise what you’re saying about being ‘underneath’ the EU and ‘freedom from EU rule’.
All the European countries I’ve visited have retained their own identities and as for ourselves...we had, even as EU members, our own currency, continued to drive on the left, measured our distance in miles and our expanding waists and collar sizes in inches.
Personally I’m happy to consider myself a ‘European’ because, factually, that’s exactly what I am and, having visited at least seven European countries in the last few years, I wouldn’t have any difficulty identifying any one of them by virtue of their architecture, customs, food, language etc.
So sorry, we disagree again. In no way am I describing the EU as Utopia and I understand some of MA’s reasoned misgivings, but honestly...what have you been freed from...what are you no longer ‘underneath’ since Brexit, because all I feel is alienation, inconvenience and as if our country has become just a bit of a laughing stock.

[swaledale]

You really are a poor excuse for a human being closet racist.
Do you really believe that anyone takes a blind bit of notice of your rants?
They are akin to a Hitler speech from Nurnberg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3N_2r6R-o

Speaking as the guy who has posted endless xenophobic, racist bigoted crap on here, I think the pot calling the kettle is apt here.

You really are such a dumbass, and as such no I realised long ago, having pointlessly tried to debate issues with you, that you ahve absolutely no clue about reality, your views and ideas are guided by utterly discredited sources. Like those moronic trump supporters, your so far down a rabbit hole of lies and deception, you wouldn't recognise facts or truth if it hit you in the face.

There are some people who make one ashamed to admit being British, scum like you area prime example, but its your utter stupidity and your willingness to post your views which show you to be so dumb its unbelievable, clearly a chap with no ****ing clue at all and they allow cretins like you to vote! Jeeze what a moron you are, now **** off!

[swaledale]

It will continue to influence all of those aspects for many years to come rA, but not necessarily long term for the worse. Time will be the judge of the efficacy of Brexit, not you and Swale points scoring after 15 months, mudded by adding COVID into the equation. I genuinely don't know how it will pan out: the two of you doom mongers might be proven right. But for those of us taking a more measured perspective. who knows.

Its already claer how its going to pan out - this government of fools are taking the country down the route of low regulation, low taxes in a desperate attempt to be "competitive", talking of a Indo- pacific tilt, when the trade deals they are negotiating are fractions of a percentage of the value of the trade we ahve with the EU.

Yes it may have been logical to remove ourselves from the political ramifications of the EU, though at least when we were in the tent, we had influence and a veto, but to voluntarily exit the single market and customs union and put barriers and costs on exports to our nearest trading partners was economic lunacy and thats costing a minimum of £400 million per week to the UK economy.

I mean, you might be able to be sanguine as the futures of our children are squandered on false ideology but some of us will continue to call out the issues and there is over half of the voting population in this country who think the same.

Economic reality will force us back into the single market and customs union within a decade, sooner if we get a government that actually recognises whats best for the UK as whole instead of pandering to the thick xenophobes!

[Andy_Faber]

I suspect the truth is that both AF and GP would like the Brexit thread to ‘disappear’

Au contraire, at least in my case, it continues to provide an interesting set of personal perspectives on the same issue.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Au contraire, at least in my case, it continues to provide an interesting set of personal perspectives on the same issue.

I'm not bothered tbh. I have the capacity to ignore it. It's a bit like Jeremy Corbyn or Nigel Farage.. a lot of *******s is spoken in its name, but I don't need to listen