OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

It's the question in my mind. If you don't have the courage in your own convictions to try to make a difference, then your opinion is only so much hot air.

[Andy_Faber]

And there’s the rub. Respecting a democratic decision is only as GOOD as the decision itself and respecting a democratic decision even if you don’t agree with it is not necessarily a good thing at all.
I suspect, and I don’t mean this as an insult but just as a comment on your mindset, this is why Swale sometimes suggests you’d have been a ‘good German’ in the thirties.

Don't you start on those cheap comparisons - to quote yourself, 'you're better than that'

[ramAnag]

It's the question in my mind. If you don't have the courage in your own convictions to try to make a difference, then your opinion is only so much hot air.

That’s not true is it? When did becoming a ‘freedom fighter’ become the only way to ‘make a difference’?

[ramAnag]

Don't you start on those cheap comparisons - to quote yourself, 'you're better than that'

I really don’t understand that post. It’s not enough, let alone a ‘GOOD’ thing, to just accept something because that’s what the majority think.

[Geoff Parkstone]

When I become passionate about something I will fight for it. You stick to social media to show your defiance if you want.....

This is maybe why it's easier for you to express outrage? Talk is cheap, as cheap as doing nothing and accepting the situation.

I went on enough student marches in my day to appreciate their futility.

[Andy_Faber]

I really don’t understand that post. It’s not enough, let alone a ‘GOOD’ thing, to just accept something because that’s what the majority think.

As I said last week, reference to Hitler / Naziism is one of the go to refuges of those who struggle to make their points by legitimate means. I’m surprised you condone it

[ramAnag]

When I become passionate about something I will fight for it. You stick to social media to show your defiance if you want.....

This is maybe why it's easier for you to express outrage? Talk is cheap, as cheap as doing nothing and accepting the situation.

I went on enough student marches in my day to appreciate their futility.

Never heard of ‘the pen is mightier than the sword’ then?
Let’s not get into ‘when I become passionate about something I will fight for it’ and ‘you stick to social media...if you want’ please.
I mean what are you going to do? Come to that...what do you expect me to do about Brexit other than argue the case?
Talk isn’t cheap at all...who are you all of a sudden...the Clint Eastwood of the forum.

I too went on plenty of student marches. Some were in support of Anti-Apartheid and freeing Nelson Mandela...wouldn’t call those ‘futile’.

[swaledale]

When I become passionate about something I will fight for it. You stick to social media to show your defiance if you want.....

This is maybe why it's easier for you to express outrage? Talk is cheap, as cheap as doing nothing and accepting the situation.

I went on enough student marches in my day to appreciate their futility.

Ah so all protest is futile? Mm tell that to the shipyard workers of Gdansk or the the East German students!

I suspect many an old fart thought the same about the suffragette movement, oh and didn't Nelson Mandela actually get free and become president?

Extinction rebellion and indeed Insulate Britain have if nothing else, ensured the issues have penetrated the minds of many who weren't are before!

Talk is indeed cheap, and I for one know that whats said on this Forum is generally pointless, whats posted by me is for my amusement - mostly how easy it is to get under AF's skin and to watch his amazing contortions as he tres (and fails) to avoid showing his true colours!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

If you believe your student marches made a difference the please continue to think so. I'm confident mine didn't.

And no I'm not a Rambo as nothing has enflamed me sufficient to go down that route.

[ramAnag]

As I said last week, reference to Hitler / Naziism is one of the go to refuges of those who struggle to make their points by legitimate means. I’m surprised you condone it

Oh behave. You’re obsessed. The ‘good German’ reference is concerned with those Germans who helped legitimise what was going on back in the thirties and forties by saying and doing nothing. There is a parallel there with you when you make out that those who challenge the authority of the Referendum result are somehow challenging democracy and even being ‘subversive’.
The truth is you’ve spent six years criticising those who challenge the wisdom of Brexit while at the same time hiding from the need to offer personal approval or condemnation behind the smokescreen of defending democracy.

[swaledale]

As I said last week, reference to Hitler / Naziism is one of the go to refuges of those who struggle to make their points by legitimate means. I’m surprised you condone it

Yeah Pops, I remember you saying something like that, I also remember you avoiding answering why you were so concerned about the supposed over representation of ethnic minorities in the media and how chuffed you were when apparently you were right!! So forgive me if I say that your opinion on this issue is somewhat suspect.

I suppose the fact that your second cousin is a diversity analysist for a right wing think tank led you down this path or perhaps it was your latent racism that was the cause of your concern?

But lets just stop and examine what you are in effect telling us. That making a reference or seeing a parallel to Hitler/Nazis in the way right wing governments today are increasingly authoritarian, that a populist political approach, which is based more on simplistic slogans and blaming other people, groups of people or even other nations or in the case of the Eu groups of nations is not similar to how Hitler operated?

That in all the cases mentioned, that be Johnson and the current Tory government, Trump in the US or the governments in Hungary and Poland have been democratically elected, but then sort to introduce laws which are ever more restrictive and authoritarian in the guise that they are necessary to improve/preserve the society which the majority of people want?

In fact in a previous post I actually listed all the issues which the Johnson government had done which were direct parallels with the Nazi play book.

a few examples demonise immigrants, attack unions, restrict the right to protest, demonise the EU, blame France, pretend the sovereignty of the Uk is at risk, overinflate the Uk's standing in the world, excessive flag waving.

But don't take my word for it - do a little bit of research and you will find that there are a number of respected and knowledgeable academics (some from Cambridge Uni no less), political commentators and journalists who see the same thing to varying degrees.

But no Faber has spoken, nothing to see here.

Well sorry pal, on this as indeed on many other things, you have an opinion but the evidence suggests your wrong!

On the other hand, one of the classic Nazi/Hitler approach, is repeat a lie often enough and people think its the truth, so you keep repeating this lie, and if we come full circle and note your oft repeated concern about ethnic minorities in the media and perhaps there is another conclusion to be reached here, one that shows your more unsavoury side?

[swaledale]

Oh behave. You’re obsessed. The ‘good German’ reference is concerned with those Germans who helped legitimise what was going on back in the thirties and forties by saying and doing nothing. There is a parallel there with you when you make out that those who challenge the authority of the Referendum result are somehow challenging democracy and even being ‘subversive’.
The truth is you’ve spent six years criticising those who challenge the wisdom of Brexit while at the same time hiding from the need to offer personal approval or condemnation behind the smokescreen of defending democracy.

Not to mention all those who seemingly voted for Johnson and the Tories and are now surprised that he proved to be an incompetent, lying, shape shifting, idle, bumbling idiot!! I mean a considerable number of people voted for the Tories on the basis that a right wing media owned by ex pat tax avoiding billionaire non doms said Corbyn was a threat to the country..I mean how much worse would he have been?

[swaledale]

If you believe your student marches made a difference the please continue to think so. I'm confident mine didn't.

And no I'm not a Rambo as nothing has enflamed me sufficient to go down that route.

I don't believe, I know some made a difference, some were at local level, others actually changed national policy and other contributed to wider change.

But presumably yours were completely pointless then? Do enlighten as to what issues you marched about?

[Ramshank72]

Not to mention all those who seemingly voted for Johnson and the Tories and are now surprised that he proved to be an incompetent, lying, shape shifting, idle, bumbling idiot!! I mean a considerable number of people voted for the Tories on the basis that a right wing media owned by ex pat tax avoiding billionaire non doms said Corbyn was a threat to the country..I mean how much worse would he have been?

I was with you until the last bit, I mean, there's a difference between bumping your head after reading the "mind your head" sign, and jumping off a bridge with concrete tied to your knackers.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I don't believe, I know some made a difference, some were at local level, others actually changed national policy and other contributed to wider change.

But presumably yours were completely pointless then? Do enlighten as to what issues you marched about?

Mostly I remember them aimed at smashing the social contract which I think was a Wilson government approach to curtailing trade union power. A few were more self interested and geared towards increasing the student grant - which didn't happen. Most, if not all, quickly lost direction and turned into pub crawls which were fun, and the primary reason why most of us went, but no exactly instruments of change.