OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Ramshank72]

Doubt you would have pressed on with a business venture that was clearly going to bankrupt a company! Starmer is talking about making Brexit "work", thats vague enough to mean anything, the reality is that rejoining the single market/customs union is the only realistic option and the mood within politics with both the Tories and Labour as well as it seems the majority of voters is swinging this way.

Also it is important that the failure of Brexit to deliver what was promised and that it never will, is repeated ad nauseam, this is one big con, that people need reminding about for as long as it takes for it to be understood, no matter how much the Brexiteers would like it to be forgotten.

I don't think, other than the entrenched anti EU, many who voted for Brexit would object to a customs union. That's the swing voters that was mentioned a few posts before, that sway the decisions. So there'd probably be little significant opposition to it, it keeps everyone content (except of course the hard "all in" or "all out" camps). Once the ego's (of political leaders) fade away into different jobs / retirement on either side of the Channel, I'd fully expect there to be re-engagement on such matters.

[swaledale]

Agreed, time is thinning the ranks of the die hards anyway. For me, leaving the political bit of the Eu wasn't a big deal, though we did have a unique veto and much influence, but given the narrow margin of the referendum, there wasn't IMO opinion a mandate for a hard Brexit.

[MadAmster]

Agreed, time is thinning the ranks of the die hards anyway. For me, leaving the political bit of the Eu wasn't a big deal, though we did have a unique veto and much influence, but given the narrow margin of the referendum, there wasn't IMO opinion a mandate for a hard Brexit.

The "1%" might care to differ. They paid for it so they called the tune.

[ramAnag]

It’s interesting when you get a thread that lasts so long and attracts such strong and divided opinion how, contrary to the opinions of some, stances do change.
It began, approaching seven years ago, as a triumphalist Brexit and pro Farage thread.
Over recent months - years even - support has been reduced to just one committed Brexiteer in Tricky with more informed, if less partisan, support from RS and pro democracy rather than overt pro Brexit support from AF and GP.
The resurgence in comments began on Sunday with my introduction of some figures from Statista suggesting a huge decrease in support for Brexit. Tricky and AF immediately attempted to shoot such a suggestion down in flames however they’ve both gone very quiet since their misgivings were challenged.
Since then RS has put forward a far more moderate view than was once the case and GP has referred to the ‘idiotic British man in the street’ in terms that, had Swale or I said such a thing, would have once earned the sternest of rebukes from both GP himself and AF, along with howls of derision from Tricky.
We’ve been regularly told that this debate has changed nothing...seems to me that on both our little localised forum and the infinitely bigger national stage that the times are indeed ‘a changin’.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Hmmm, really. As I see it you Swale, TTR, A F and myself still retain the same referendum voting position. Not sure about RS - he could be that one in 6 you need to switch to justify the stats

[ramAnag]

Hmmm, really. As I see it you Swale, TTR, A F and myself still retain the same referendum voting position. Not sure about RS - he could be that one in 6 you need to switch to justify the stats

So you’re suggesting your own ‘idiotic British man in the street’ blame comment and the Statista 55% v 32% against Brexit figures don’t suggest a change of tone and public perception regarding the reality of Brexit?

[Ramshank72]

I don't see anyone in this thread (conceding I only look intermittently) changing their opinion, nor have I heard anyone in the "real world" that I speak to expressing a change of opinion, so I wouldn't confer. I also wouldn't take notice of any polls, as unless you are able to target a verified voting audience with a 50/50 in/out split suitably represented with associated demographics (impossible task), the sample will always be skewed, and produce an unrepresentative result.

[Geoff Parkstone]

So you’re suggesting your own ‘idiotic British man in the street’ blame comment and the Statista 55% v 32% against Brexit figures don’t suggest a change of tone and public perception regarding the reality of Brexit?

On the localised forum which you reference it seems to me that noone has changed their minds. Certainly my reference to the idiotic British public is not a new position - I've held that view for over 50 years!! I guess the difference is I don't describe them in terms of pork products.

As for the polls, I've never put much faith in them: don't forget the pre referendum polls pretty much all suggested a remain outcome. There will always be bias, deliberate or otherwise, in posing the questions and selecting the sample

[MadAmster]

As long as the top 1% own more than 80% of the world's wealth, there will be skullduggery aimed at keeping them in that lofty position.

Conspiracy theorists claim that there is a conspiracy afoot to see the "elite" take over the world, That would be the 1% aided and ebetted by organisations like the WEF, WHO and others.

I have long contended that those with the money to donate to/sponsor politicians are the ones that actually rule. Those politicians in "power" merely pass the Laws the 1% want so that the imbalance of power/influence remains.

Brexit was one of them. Between them, those with the money and their stooges in "power" orchestrated a situation whereby sufficient people would vote to Leave, thereby protecting the 1% from that evil new EU Law that would make it illegal, and nigh on impossible, to salt money away in tax free, secret, offshore banks accounts. They be forced to pay tax..... Can't be having that, they cried.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'm not sure I agree that there is a conspiracy to see your elite 1% take over the world. I thought they already had.

[ramAnag]

On the localised forum which you reference it seems to me that noone has changed their minds. Certainly my reference to the idiotic British public is not a new position - I've held that view for over 50 years!! I guess the difference is I don't describe them in terms of pork products.

As for the polls, I've never put much faith in them: don't forget the pre referendum polls pretty much all suggested a remain outcome. There will always be bias, deliberate or otherwise, in posing the questions and selecting the sample

Fine lines, GP. You’ve recently described Brexit supporters as ‘idiotic’ whereas defending their democratic decision to reach the conclusion they did and drag the rest of us into the Brexit abyss seems to have been your previous default position.

Don’t get me wrong...I agree with you and have consistently said that democracy is worthless if gullible and foolish voters can so easily be misled by the lies of sinister and accomplished ‘political animals’. You perhaps haven’t always been so charitable.

[swaledale]

On the localised forum which you reference it seems to me that noone has changed their minds. Certainly my reference to the idiotic British public is not a new position - I've held that view for over 50 years!! I guess the difference is I don't describe them in terms of pork products.

As for the polls, I've never put much faith in them: don't forget the pre referendum polls pretty much all suggested a remain outcome. There will always be bias, deliberate or otherwise, in posing the questions and selecting the sample

The pre referendum polls were largely accurate, what they couldn't account for or indeed may have contributed to was the significant number of people who supported remain not actually voting!

There will always be bias, I guess that depends upon which organisation is doing the polling, the independent polling companies certainly don't seek a biased result, they get pretty embarrassed when they are wrong. It is actually perfectly possible to run an unbiased poll. especially if its a simple yes or no answer with a statistically representative cross section of the population, which will be accurate to within a 1-5% tolerance either way.

Of course what one can't control is whether those being polled give a true answer, but invariably they do unless its a which party do you support poll.

Few committed Brexit voters will have changed their minds its true, time however is reducing that demographic so all is not lost. However, million's who voted on the basis of £350 million going to the NHS or other falsehoods which seemed beguiling at the time have done so.

There is also the fact that many who voted and feel conned, are not exactly going to admit that, but will vote accordingly going forward. If one associates with a certain demographic, then the familiar refrain it ain't Brexit, its this government who haven't delivered it(as per the UKIP and Reform refrain at the moment) is a popular one, but not shared by most voters who were under 50 at the time of the referendum.

True the people with complexions that resemble pig meat are a sizeable chunk of the electorate, but they weren't actually in the majority in 2016 and certainly aren't now. A sizeable chunk of the Tory party were pro EU, they remain on the side-lines, waiting for this UKIP light Toru party to implode which it is doing.

On the international political stage, the UK is much diminished, economically it is weak, reality is setting in, but it will take 5 years of so to fully see a change.

[Andy_Faber]

I don't see anyone in this thread (conceding I only look intermittently) changing their opinion, nor have I heard anyone in the "real world" that I speak to expressing a change of opinion, so I wouldn't confer. I also wouldn't take notice of any polls, as unless you are able to target a verified voting audience with a 50/50 in/out split suitably represented with associated demographics (impossible task), the sample will always be skewed, and produce an unrepresentative result.

No one in my family have changed their opinion,no one amongst my neighbours, no one in my circle of friend, no one in my wider circle of rock’n’rollin’ acquaintances so maybe all this movement in the polls is wishful thinking

[ramAnag]

No one in my family have changed their opinion,no one amongst my neighbours, no one in my circle of friend, no one in my wider circle of rock’n’rollin’ acquaintances

Maybe they were all ‘Remainers’.

[Andy_Faber]

Maybe they were all ‘Remainers’.

Family a mix, neighbours a mix, friends mostly remain, musical acquaintances maybe 95% leave.