Election Year or Fear!

[Geoff Parkstone]

hmm a bit bad taste that even if said in jest considering the recent events here

Oops what have I missed in my absence from blighty this week

[SithHappens]

Oops what have I missed in my absence from blighty this week

I was thinking of the Southport tragedy which was at a taylor swift themed event

[Geoff Parkstone]

Ah yes, it was wasn't it

[Trickytreesreds]

Starmer or Stasi?

https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1833592586470338923

REMARKABLE revelations in parliament today:
-The department for Work & Pensions has stopped publishing data on welfare claims by nationality
-HMRC have stopped publishing tax paid & tax credits received by nationality
-the Home Office will not answer questions on the immigration status of prisoners
-the Home Office have the data but they refuse to publish it
-the Home Office does not collect nationality or immigration data on those who are arrested
-the Home Office does not reveal how much it is spending on hotel accommodation for migrants
-the Home Office says it does not know how much it spends on refugee loans (its taxpayer money)

This is what breeds distrust. Collect and publish the data. Show us what is REALLY going on.

[swaledale]

Might do the world a favour though if he eliminated Queen Swiftie

Why? Not aware that you or anybody for that matter was compelled to listen to her music? Wouldn't ahve thought an erudite, deep thinker like yourself would be in favour of such a sentiment.

[swaledale]

Now you see, unpopular opinion maybe, but I have no issue with the 2 child cap, having children is a choice afterall.

Most of the time, Ill health, getting old, losing your job etc isn't.

That said I don't know what happened when it was reduced to 2 children, I would say it should have only applied to new pregnancies/births and not existing families.

Not sure what ill health, growing old and losing ones job has to do with means testing the winter fuel allowance so it goes only to those that need it?

[ramAnag]

Not sure what ill health, growing old and losing ones job has to do with means testing the winter fuel allowance so it goes only to those that need it?

Bit harsh that last one, Swale. Sith is only comparing the need for the State to intervene and support those in need due to unforeseen circumstances/infirmity, rather than those who make a lifestyle choice.

I can see his point, though having said that, only the terminally stupid would consider having a child because they would be entitled to the £16.95 pw child allowance. Especially seeing as the average weekly cost of childcare is approaching £150 pw.

[MadAmster]

I may be wrong, it did happen once before when I said I do to the first Mrs Amster, BUT...

The whole "need for immigration" thing is down to the same bunch of Jodrells as everything else in this world. Namely, the top few % in the richness stakes. Those with money yield the power, They have politicians in their back pockets. Those politicians do whatever is necessary to maintain the status quo at worst and improve the lot of the top few % at best.

Now, as the birth rate started to drop, that led to a drop in population. Less people means less need for goods and services which means less money being spent on those goods and services resulting in lower profits for companies and, most importantly of all, lower dividends for shareholders. They who must be allowed cannot permit that to happen.

The only way to maintain, and preferably increase, demand for goods and services is to encourage immigrants.

My own view is that, if there's less people wanting/needing goods and services then less needs to be produced. That means you need less people to work. Not an issue as there are less people about to fill those jobs that are no longer needed. It all balances out. Swings and roundabouts. However, the rich don't contribute to that "playground" theory. They have become used to continual growth of their wealth and make sure that continues. Hence the need for immigrants or, heaven forbid, someone's 20 billion fortune might reduce by a few %.

The problem is that we cannot service the greed of the rich. They'll do whatever they believe necessary to maintain their position, even if that's detrimental to the vast majority.

The rich will continue to get richer and the poor will get ever poorer until we end up with a subservient populace, just as there was 150 to 200 years ago.

The Russians, Chinese and North Koreans have just about got there already. The focus is now on the rest of us. At 70 I'm, quite obviously, not going to be able to initiate change and push it forward. I just hope somebody somewhat younger has the foresight and steadfastness to see the need and do something about it.

Basically, I'm glad I lived my life in a time when people had a good amount of freedom and upset that the freedom I enjoyed is coming to an end for mankind.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Bit harsh that last one, Swale. Sith is only comparing the need for the State to intervene and support those in need due to unforeseen circumstances/infirmity, rather than those who make a lifestyle choice.

I can see his point, though having said that, only the terminally stupid would consider having a child because they would be entitled to the £16.95 pw child allowance. Especially seeing as the average weekly cost of childcare is approaching £150 pw.

Ah but you forget the fact that the more kids you have the bigger the council house you can apply for / get. And given these heavy breeders likely don't pay much if any rent....

Its only one example, and will no doubt go down as hearsay and so dismissed, but I know of 3 single mothers who added to their litters in order to move up the waiting list / get bigger houses.

And it works - one now in 4 bedroom free council house, the extra children have been shipped off to be looked after by the fathers while mother sublets the extra rooms (despite benefits paying the full rent) for a not inconsiderable financial gain.

So heavy breeding can work financially for those cynical enough to do so

[Geoff Parkstone]

I may be wrong, it did happen once before when I said I do to the first Mrs Amster, BUT...

The whole "need for immigration" thing is down to the same bunch of Jodrells as everything else in this world. Namely, the top few % in the richness stakes. Those with money yield the power, They have politicians in their back pockets. Those politicians do whatever is necessary to maintain the status quo at worst and improve the lot of the top few % at best.

Now, as the birth rate started to drop, that led to a drop in population. Less people means less need for goods and services which means less money being spent on those goods and services resulting in lower profits for companies and, most importantly of all, lower dividends for shareholders. They who must be allowed cannot permit that to happen.

The only way to maintain, and preferably increase, demand for goods and services is to encourage immigrants.

My own view is that, if there's less people wanting/needing goods and services then less needs to be produced. That means you need less people to work. Not an issue as there are less people about to fill those jobs that are no longer needed. It all balances out. Swings and roundabouts. However, the rich don't contribute to that "playground" theory. They have become used to continual growth of their wealth and make sure that continues. Hence the need for immigrants or, heaven forbid, someone's 20 billion fortune might reduce by a few %.

The problem is that we cannot service the greed of the rich. They'll do whatever they believe necessary to maintain their position, even if that's detrimental to the vast majority.

The rich will continue to get richer and the poor will get ever poorer until we end up with a subservient populace, just as there was 150 to 200 years ago.

The Russians, Chinese and North Koreans have just about got there already. The focus is now on the rest of us. At 70 I'm, quite obviously, not going to be able to initiate change and push it forward. I just hope somebody somewhat younger has the foresight and steadfastness to see the need and do something about it.

Basically, I'm glad I lived my life in a time when people had a good amount of freedom and upset that the freedom I enjoyed is coming to an end for mankind.

To add a slightly less cynical angle, with falling "native" birthrates and elongating life expectancy, immigration is important to generate revenue to support the pensions and healthcare needs of the aged non working corps.

The problem comes if that immigration is the "wrong sort" - ie immigrants that opt not to work and hence exacerbate the support costs rather than easing it.

It's also a bit of a Ponzi solution though as in 5 iterations the country will probably need net immigration annually in the 100s of millions and nowhere to put them let alone to employ them.

So Soylent Green it is for the old folks

[MadAmster]

Dutch government leaked yesterday that they are intending declaring an immigration crisis based on the country's inability to cope any longer. There's already a shortage of 390,000 dwellings and the only asylum centre left open, they've shut the rest, is overly full. Full to the extent that it has a limit of 2000 "inhabitants" on any night. That was being exceeded every night so the Council in whose area it's situated took them to Court and got a ruling that the centre would be fined £15K for every night they exceeded that number to a maximum fine of £1.5M. The centre is funded by the taxpayer. So, the taxpayer has paid £1.5M to the Council. The Law dictates that the Council has to spend the money on immigration related things. The max was reached a cople of months ago and the Council is now considering going back to Court to be able to impose more fines.... which the taxpayer will be funding. Utter madness.

The soon to be declared crisis will mean it will become more difficult for asylum seekers to even enter the country and those who have already had their applications refused can be much easier to remove from the country.

They are also going to approach "Brussels" to get an opt out from much of the stuff they currently have to adhere to for a period of 18 months. Pretty much what Germany did last week.

[Geoff Parkstone]

And pretty much what many in UK want to see happen, albeit not in a European context

[ramAnag]

Ah but you forget the fact that the more kids you have the bigger the council house you can apply for / get. And given these heavy breeders likely don't pay much if any rent....

Its only one example, and will no doubt go down as hearsay and so dismissed, but I know of 3 single mothers who added to their litters in order to move up the waiting list / get bigger houses.

And it works - one now in 4 bedroom free council house, the extra children have been shipped off to be looked after by the fathers while mother sublets the extra rooms (despite benefits paying the full rent) for a not inconsiderable financial gain.

So heavy breeding can work financially for those cynical enough to do so

I don’t forget, GP…in fact I know it happens and have worked with some such families. They are however, the minority…and we shouldn't (imo) make policy according to the lowest common denominators…although unfortunately that is all too often the case with ‘laws’.

My point was that Sith is right to differentiate between those who CHOOSE to ‘suffer’ the financial hardships that having large families can bring with it and those who suffer ‘circumstantial’ financial hardship through no fault of their own. Having said that, without going back to the Dickensian days of the ‘workhouse’, if a two child cap was imposed…what do we (society) do when we see a third, fourth of fifth child suffering neglect? Please don’t answer that cynically.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I won't answer cynically as I don't know the answer. Don't blame the child blame the parent(s) - but other then taking children into care, is there a solution? There likely isn't enough capacity in the foster/adoption system to deal with it - and most of those in IVF process want a fresh one of their own rather than a compromised "used" one.

Long term the solution has to be the education of the parents into contraception and managing childcare sensibly. But how? There are differing standards of care provision - how do you educate people that a healthy diet and avoidance of obesity means "real food" not fast food: especially when the parents themselves are of the McDonalds generation. Am I (we) guilty of imposing middle class values on this as we were lucky enough to have better.

But it will only get worse as the next generation who are comfortable taking knives to school start to breed. I feel sad for future generations who have little going on for themselves and still less to look forward to

[ramAnag]

I won't answer cynically as I don't know the answer. Don't blame the child blame the parent(s) - but other then taking children into care, is there a solution? There likely isn't enough capacity in the foster/adoption system to deal with it - and most of those in IVF process want a fresh one of their own rather than a compromised "used" one.

Long term the solution has to be the education of the parents into contraception and managing childcare sensibly. But how? There are differing standards of care provision - how do you educate people that a healthy diet and avoidance of obesity means "real food" not fast food: especially when the parents themselves are of the McDonalds generation. Am I (we) guilty of imposing middle class values on this as we were lucky enough to have better.

But it will only get worse as the next generation who are comfortable taking knives to school start to breed. I feel sad for future generations who have little going on for themselves and still less to look forward to

Thanks…sensible answer…and having spent a good part of my professional life teaching and developing schemes about both contraception and eating ‘real’ not fast food (not simultaneously) I’m glad you appreciate how hard it is. Not sure it’s about imposing ‘middle class values’ any more than just common sense.

Think you’re a tad pessimistic when you describe a ‘generation who are comfortable taking knives to school’. Don’t think that’s actually the case. Throughout my teaching career, which included four decades, there were always a tiny minority who would have to be ‘dispossessed’ of knives, drugs, alcohol, bricks, needles, bike chains etc. From what I hear, from both those still teaching and grandchildren, it’s still a small minority…although vaping seems to be hugely on the increase.