Election Year or Fear!

[Trickytreesreds]

What stations and where?

An independent Scotland would be perfectly well within their rights to tell Westminster to house UK nukes in the UK. I presume any new Scottish government would keep the various Scots regiments, they would not be disbanding all bases. Part of any "divorce" agreement would be the splitting up of assets and liabilities. Scotland has 8% of the UK populace so they'd be entitled to 8% of the Air Force planes, Navy ships, Army weapons etc. They'd also be entitled to 8% of the nuclear arsenal although they'll probably decline that.

EU. Wouldn't get a shoe in but many EU states have already said they'd welcome an independent Scotland. NATO? Again it wouldn't be a shoe in but they would join. Scots regiments are legendary fighters.

Are you just being naive or obstinate?

You want a list, here it is. Faslane Vangard base/ Argyle and Bute and Colport, (scotlands biggest miltary employer,) houses Nuclear warheads and all the ND deterrent supplies/ then there is Leuchars, Kinloss, Lossiemouth, Fort George, Royal Marines Condor near Arbroath, and the Hebrides Range. Scotland would have neither the funds/ ships/planes or personnel to man them all.
Yhet may not want the nukes, but they certainly don't want the job losses and loss of revenue those bases bring either.
Considering the massive budget deficit and tax increases that would follow, I couldn't see them man more than a few jeeps and hang gliders.
I know you have a secret wet dream for Jock independence, but I have Jock relatives who in no way want any of it.

I won;t go into all the royal navy contracts that would go in the bin either, as most of the companies located there, would leg it south

[Trickytreesreds]

Here's a Guardian survey for you Maddy. What they say and what they would accept, may be entirely different.
If they do get independence, the UK public certainly want to poo poo the SNP despite their denials that nothing would change.

The recent British Social Attitudes survey, published in June, found that, although people in Scotland say they are opposed to nuclear weapons (46% against, 36% in favour), when asked for their views on the following statement:

If Scotland becomes independent, Britain’s nuclear weapons submarines should continue to be based here

41% agreed and 37% disagreed. Strikingly, only 26% of those in England and Wales thought Trident should stay in Scotland post-independence; 63% said the submarines should “definitely” or “probably” be moved.

[Geoff Parkstone]

George Galloway wants to "make Rochdale great again" !! What he going to do, open a new co-op?

Talk about delusional

[Trickytreesreds]

George Galloway wants to "make Rochdale great again" !! What he going to do, open a new co-op?

Talk about delusional

He could ask the police/social services/ council to its jobs. That would be a good start

[ramAnag]

George Galloway wants to "make Rochdale great again" !! What he going to do, open a new co-op?

Talk about delusional

Talk about prejudiced! Although, tbf, it’ll take a lot longer than GG’s got in office.

[Andy_Faber]

Talk about prejudiced! Although, tbf, it’ll take a lot longer than GG’s got in office.

I think you might be wrong, our CO-OP only took 6 weeks to build

[ramAnag]

I think you might be wrong, our CO-OP only took 6 weeks to build

Fair point. I think Rog was referring to the mid ninete*nth century but I accept the Tories - and thus GG - have probably got 6-9 months.

[swaledale]

Yes they did. But the question remains why?
1. It was hot potato of race rumbles, they didn't want to deal with
2. The girls being blamed was easier
2. The people complicit in the abuse spread far and wide, which was a road they didn't want to go down. Yep, local councillors were either involved, or part of the cover up.

The whole episode is a blight on British justice and shameful, in the name of multiculturalism and not rocking the boat.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlCC...channel=GBNews

That's where your wrong, race "sensitivity" was part of the equation, but the far bigger issue was the fact that the girls were viewed as "worthless" or contributing to their own situation or even "willing " participants. The same issues were around other grooming gangs where the perpetrators were white. So contrary to your assertion, blaming it on "ethnic sensitivity" was the easier option, rather than admit, that the attitudes of the Police, social workers and other authorities was the key issue.

After all one doesn't have to look very far, to see widespread, misogyny, disregard of women, amongst the Police nationally in cases involving child abuse, domestic abuse not to mention the seemingly inability to bring successful prosecutions for rape

Anyway, the FACT remains that the vast majority of child abuse crimes are committed by white perpetrators. Something you and others like you who label every issue a "race" issue when it really isn't, don't seem to be able to understand. But then if you listen to an echo chamber of your own prejudices then that's hardly surprising.

Its certainly the case that there are issues around race, (although their impact on people like you is actually minimal) but Blaming it on "multi culturalism" is neither helpful nor accurate, you'd do well to actually get information from unbiased sources, rather than parrot the crap spun by people who have an alternative agenda. Until you do, you will just look rather stupid, not to mention a little bit xenophobic.

But I guess at least your prejudices are open, its obvious what you think, though not obvious that you think very hard.

[Andy_Faber]

Anyway, the FACT remains that the vast majority of child abuse crimes are committed by white perpetrators. .

It seems a bit of a common trait amongst you apologists that you choose not to take into account population demographics when making such assertions. The last government study found that 81% of perpetrators were white, roughly in line with the population. Recent posts including but not exclusively your own are riddled with such ignorance

[ramAnag]

It seems a bit of a common trait amongst you apologists that you choose not to take into account population demographics when making such assertions. The last government study found that 81% of perpetrators were white, roughly in line with the population. Recent posts including but not exclusively your own are riddled with such ignorance

Tbf Andy, I don’t think Swale is writing as an ‘apologist’ and I’m certainly not…I speak as someone who is wholly opposed, both practically and idealistically, to all forms of child abuse.
It’s interesting that you’ve never come back to clarify your strong objections to my initial post but that’s up to you.
I am glad that you recognise that abusers seem to be fairly evenly spread across the cultures…that’s certainly the case in my experience, and was the rationale behind challenging TTR’s predictable portrayal of Muslims as abusers.

[Trickytreesreds]

That's where your wrong, race "sensitivity" was part of the equation, but the far bigger issue was the fact that the girls were viewed as "worthless" or contributing to their own situation or even "willing " participants. The same issues were around other grooming gangs where the perpetrators were white. So contrary to your assertion, blaming it on "ethnic sensitivity" was the easier option, rather than admit, that the attitudes of the Police, social workers and other authorities was the key issue.

After all one doesn't have to look very far, to see widespread, misogyny, disregard of women, amongst the Police nationally in cases involving child abuse, domestic abuse not to mention the seemingly inability to bring successful prosecutions for rape

Anyway, the FACT remains that the vast majority of child abuse crimes are committed by white perpetrators. Something you and others like you who label every issue a "race" issue when it really isn't, don't seem to be able to understand. But then if you listen to an echo chamber of your own prejudices then that's hardly surprising.

Its certainly the case that there are issues around race, (although their impact on people like you is actually minimal) but Blaming it on "multi culturalism" is neither helpful nor accurate, you'd do well to actually get information from unbiased sources, rather than parrot the crap spun by people who have an alternative agenda. Until you do, you will just look rather stupid, not to mention a little bit xenophobic.

But I guess at least your prejudices are open, its obvious what you think, though not obvious that you think very hard.

Rubbish.

Apply population demographics against crimes committed and the results are damming.

Its facts like that, that you avoid. Blaming bias and predjudice.
Yes it was white girls abused.
because the situation was there to be exploited by one demograph of ethnicity. (Pakistani)
1. it was against the law in many ways- it was the perps fault not the vicims, no matter how much you try to white wash that
2. drugs and alcohol were used. They certainly were not wanting to be raped/peddled/passed around like a piece of meat
3. They complained, the authoritys didn't want to take it seriously and it was swept under the carpet.
4. You mention mysogyny? Go the whole hog then
The Muslim back ground of the perpetrators -
women are second class citizens/ white girls are beneath that/ they were easy to tempy with booze and drugs. In their eyes , their faith didn't condemn a lot in what they were doing.

The fight against grooming gangs is still being hampered by authorities’ fears that they could be called racist for documenting abusers’ ethnicity, an official has said.

A damning report by the Independent Inquiry into Child ***ual Abuse (IICSA) found child ***ual exploitation continues in all parts of England and Wales, a decade after it became a national scandal.

The report said children were being abused “in the most degrading and destructive ways” amid “extensive failures by local authorities and police forces”.

John O’Brien, secretary to the inquiry, called for a “cultural change” to ensure that child ***ual exploitation can be understood and prevented.

“We need to break the culture where people are worried that they might be accused of being racist just because they record factual information,” he told The Independent.


You keep apologising and trying to deflect the outrage, by blaming the likes of me for calling it out for what it is.

[Trickytreesreds]

Tbf Andy, I don’t think Swale is writing as an ‘apologist’ and I’m certainly not…I speak as someone who is wholly opposed, both practically and idealistically, to all forms of child abuse.
It’s interesting that you’ve never come back to clarify your strong objections to my initial post but that’s up to you.
I am glad that you recognise that abusers seem to be fairly evenly spread across the cultures…that’s certainly the case in my experience, and was the rationale behind challenging TTR’s predictable portrayal of Muslims as abusers.

My portrayal as you cal it.
Was in line with the topic of the thread. That Islam now manifests itself in many ways in UK society,
The grooming gangs were and are outrageous, but you have to look deeper than that, as to why it happened.

The word "racists" has been weaponised and used as a shield to cover up all sorts crimes and outrages committed by ethic minorities in the last 30 odd years.
Islam, is a force of its own. It now has spread into politics, where racial sectariamism, is a platform to get elected.

It will now get worse, as Labour is about to lose a huge proportion of its imported voters, that Blair instigated.

Stop covering it up. Face up to it and deal with it, as one nation , under one law.

The problem with the UK (AND EUROPE), is that mass immigration has occurred over a short space of time, with minimum integration.
The brains behind this hadn't thought it through.

As the USA under Biden are now finding out. The democrats were all boo hoo, let them come. Until its ended up in their own back yard and now they are screaming.
The irony being, the ones that are suffering there, are the legal immigrant poor, who voted Democrats.

Meanwhile, China/Russia have clear plans for expansion and their countries fIrst. The West gets softer and implodes under woke and race issues.
Trouble coming.

[ramAnag]

My portrayal as you cal it.
Was in line with the topic of the thread. That Islam now manifests itself in many ways in UK society,
The grooming gangs were and are outrageous, but you have to look deeper than that, as to why it happened.

The word "racists" has been weaponised and used as a shield to cover up all sorts crimes and outrages committed by ethic minorities in the last 30 odd years.
Islam, is a force of its own. It now has spread into politics, where racial sectariamism, is a platform to get elected.

It will now get worse, as Labour is about to lose a huge proportion of its imported voters, that Blair instigated.

Stop covering it up. Face up to it and deal with it, as one nation , under one law.

The problem with the UK (AND EUROPE), is that mass immigration has occurred over a short space of time, with minimum integration.
The brains behind this hadn't thought it through.

As the USA under Biden are now finding out. The democrats were all boo hoo, let them come. Until its ended up in their own back yard and now they are screaming.
The irony being, the ones that are suffering there, are the legal immigrant poor, who voted Democrats.

Meanwhile, China/Russia have clear plans for expansion and their countries fIrst. The West gets softer and implodes under woke and race issues.
Trouble coming.

Do stop shouting Tricky…using a bigger font doesn’t make anyone take any more notice of you.

The ‘topic of the thread’ as you call it is the impending elections on either side of the Atlantic. Islam, Muslims and *****philia hadn’t been mentioned until you resurfaced and the tone had been quite reasoned and rational.

Why not start your own thread in your capacity as the forum’s guest ‘foreign correspondent’? See how many people want a sensible discussion about immigration and Islam instead of piggybacking and catastrophizing an existing one.

[MadAmster]

Meanwhile, in other news.... announced on Dutch News today (TTR will like this one, I believe) the EU and UK are to cooperate on reducing/eliminating the use of the small boats to the UK by wannabe unregistered immigrants.

I've, purposely, not used the term "illegal" as, under the 1951 Refugee Convention, to which the UK is a signatory, refugees may settle in a place of THEIR choosing.

[swaledale]

Rubbish.

Apply population demographics against crimes committed and the results are damming.

Its facts like that, that you avoid. Blaming bias and predjudice.
Yes it was white girls abused.
because the situation was there to be exploited by one demograph of ethnicity. (Pakistani)
1. it was against the law in many ways- it was the perps fault not the vicims, no matter how much you try to white wash that
2. drugs and alcohol were used. They certainly were not wanting to be raped/peddled/passed around like a piece of meat
3. They complained, the authoritys didn't want to take it seriously and it was swept under the carpet.
4. You mention mysogyny? Go the whole hog then
The Muslim back ground of the perpetrators -
women are second class citizens/ white girls are beneath that/ they were easy to tempy with booze and drugs. In their eyes , their faith didn't condemn a lot in what they were doing.

The fight against grooming gangs is still being hampered by authorities’ fears that they could be called racist for documenting abusers’ ethnicity, an official has said.

A damning report by the Independent Inquiry into Child ***ual Abuse (IICSA) found child ***ual exploitation continues in all parts of England and Wales, a decade after it became a national scandal.

The report said children were being abused “in the most degrading and destructive ways” amid “extensive failures by local authorities and police forces”.

John O’Brien, secretary to the inquiry, called for a “cultural change” to ensure that child ***ual exploitation can be understood and prevented.

“We need to break the culture where people are worried that they might be accused of being racist just because they record factual information,” he told The Independent.


You keep apologising and trying to deflect the outrage, by blaming the likes of me for calling it out for what it is.

How the **** did you reach that conclusion? The outrage is purely confected by bigoted, xenophobic thickos like you, who it seems ignore the abuse that's being perpetrated by those who are white and focus purely on cases where there is an ethnic element.

The fact that you claim I was victim blaming, demonstrates quite clearly that you either cannot comprehend simple English - a common affliction of the racist gammon I find. because nowhere in my response to your pathetic polemic, did I blame the victims. Not sure why you bother to debate when you can't even understand what's been posted - its not hard really, you just have to read properly and avoid filtering it with your right wing bias!

I was actually clarifying, that far from child ***ual exploitation and the failure to take action on cases of domestic abuse and rape was down to the attitudes of the Police, Social Services and other authorities to TAKE THE VICTIMS SERIOUSLY as evidenced in the very low conviction rates for these crimes.

Neither did I suggest race wasn't a factor in some cases and merely that its convenient for those in authority to use sensitivity to race as an excuse, rather than admit they the fact "victim blaming" was a major factor.

You quote from any source that appears to back up your false claims - again I find that typical of people who are looking to support and agenda.

The recent Home office official report states:

The majority of child ***ual abuse gangs are made up of white men under the age of 30, an official paper has said.

The report, which covers England, Scotland and Wales and summarises a range of studies on the issue of group-based child ***ual exploitation (CSE), also known as grooming gangs, said there was not enough evidence to conclude that child ***ual abuse gangs were disproportionately made up of Asian offenders.

MM BUT CLEARLY YOU DON'T BASE YOUR VIEWS ON EVIDENCE DO YOU?

But obviously you swallow hook line and sinker, those reports which claim that its Asian Gangs that are the issue. I'm not saying they aren't, just not the major one here thats a skewed claim, made purely to advance a certain agenda as you well know, so cut the crap.

I did piss myself laughing when you mentioned applying demographics, sorry but you have shown no ability to understand and interpret demographics or statistics, so forgive me if I take that as you parroting another phrase spewed out by some tw@t online or on a right wing media channel. Jeez if your going to debate a serious subject, then you do need to keep within your ability or as you will make yourself look stupid, as you have done in your latest post.

As indeed is your faux rage of this issue, I'll wager I've had more dealings in reality with these sorts of issues than you have.

“The danger is that by focusing entirely on the ethnicity of the offender, we miss the bigger picture, which is how the unheard, the left-behind women and girls, are invariably the victims. That’s where the government’s attention and action should be primarily focused.”

OH LOOK, THE FOCUS SHOULD BE ON THE VICTIMS! Which is what I said in my last post, yes in certain cases (but not the majority) sensitivity to race was an issue. But by far the greatest issue is that women and girls in these circumstances are viewed by those in authority as being responsible in some way.

I even quoted the recent case where the murderer of a *** worker who has finally been convicted, was hampered by this victim blaming.

So all in all your last post, is wrong on many levels and demonstrates just how your thoughts are influenced by the cr@p you read online, rather than the product of genuine critical thinking and your not calling anything out for what it is, rather your using a particular series of events to falsely justify your obvious xenophobia, bigotry and racism.

I do try and have an honest debate with you, but **** me, you are rally thick sometimes!