Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

Sorry rA but I was in Birmingham during the pub bombings, and please be assured that the Irish were demonized and attacked for a long time thereafter.

Accepted…and of course in those circumstances that is always going to be local outrage, but generally I think it’s fair to say that our relationship with the Irish has not been totally tarnished by such events as Birmingham, Warrington, the Arndale in Manchester and numerous such atrocities in London.

[Andy_Faber]

‘Repeated trotting out of Jo Cox’? I don’t think her murder has been repeatedly referred to has it? Certainly not by me. My point is that right wing extremists are just as culpable and I really don’t understand how that strengthens Tricky’s point.
Are there too many Muslim perpetrators of terrorism? Yes.
Were there too many Irish perpetrators of terrorism between the sixties and the nineties? Yes.
Did we and do we all continue to demonise the Irish as a result? No.

Yes it has. And yes, by you

The point TTR has made, supported by GOV.UK’s own report, is that by far the biggest threat to UK (thats YOUR) security is from Islamic terrorists. Your point that ‘right wing extremists are just as culpable’ is flawed because, whilst each incident of any type is equally unacceptable, you ignore the volume/frequency of such incidents - thankfully HMG don’t.

I’m unsure whether you just don’t ‘get’ the impact of volume, happy to offer an analogy if you wish. I can’t help but think you’ve become a victim of Swalewashing though

[ramAnag]

That’s a poor response, AF, you know me better than that.

I’m sure I have referred to Jo Cox at some point in the last eight years but certainly neither repeatedly or on this thread.
As for ‘Swalewashing’…as you know Swale and I have been having a war of words over the last six months regarding football.
We do happen to be more conciliatory where politics are concerned, but I have held my political views for a great deal longer than I’ve been part of this forum, my opposition to right wing extremism and racism goes back decades and has nothing whatsoever to do with what Swale thinks.

I do recognise the threat from ‘Islamic terrorists’…I am simply pointing out that there are/were other factors/sources…you don’t resolve such problems by demonising a whole group of society as a result of the actions of a small militant and extremist minority…and that Muslims from Gaza to London’s Brick Lane are likely to know the meaning of terror as well as anyone.

[MadAmster]

Why won't Egypt and other Arab countries accept Palestinian refugees from Gaza? Those countries refusal to accept them is... anti WHAT?? Whatever anti that is, is what other countries would be guilty of if they refused to take them in.

Problem is I've not seen a single word accusing Egypt et al of anti anything towards the Palestinians...

[Trickytreesreds]

Why won't Egypt and other Arab countries accept Palestinian refugees from Gaza? Those countries refusal to accept them is... anti WHAT?? Whatever anti that is, is what other countries would be guilty of if they refused to take them in.

Problem is I've not seen a single word accusing Egypt et al of anti anything towards the Palestinians...

It isn't just Egypt.
The problem is that Gaza is a hot bed of radical Islamic folks. You only have to look at what they did to Lebanon to see what will happen if you let them in.

The problem with the UK, is that we have no filter system in place, for what comes over here in boats or legally.
Add into that what brain washing occurs in the Mosques and that radical thinking spreads among the Islam community
Yes , I fear that!!

The proof is already evident.
If as I said yesterday, that 40 000 males of our UK muslims are under close watch. That's a hell of a lot of potential muderers among us.
RA quotes the far right threat. OK it does happen, but it usually is a lone loon, who isn't radicalised by a religion and encouraged by his/her local church.

If you want to see how far this could go, then look at Sweden. We have enough enclaves now of exclusive minorities, that have shunned British life and set up their own little bubbles.
Leicester exploded.
In August and September 2022, Leicester, England, saw a period of religious and ethnic tension between predominately British Hindus and British Muslims of South Asian origin. The unrest saw rioting, protest marches, sloganeering and ethnic violence between the two populations.
All triggered by a cricket match, but their respective bubble communities clashed with their prejudices.
Folks seem to think, its the white native population here, that are the exclusive owners of racial fear.
Wrong, this is a product of multiculturalism, that is/ has been badly managed.

The recent foray into attacking politicians, is the latest attempt for dominance and control.

[Andy_Faber]

That’s a poor response, AF, you know me better than that.

1. I’m sure I have referred to Jo Cox at some point in the last eight years

2. I do recognise the threat from ‘Islamic terrorists’…I am simply pointing out that there are/were other factors/sources…

3. you don’t resolve such problems by demonising a whole group of society as a result of the actions of a small militant and extremist minority…

1. Yes you have, its been a repeated comeback or I wouldn't comment on it

2. Yes I agree but even the trusted (non-partisan part of) HMG identify it as by far the major threat. Just a fact, not my opinion, your failure to acknowlege that despite a number of prompts makes you come over more as a politician than a (profession deleted)

3. Nor would demonise, my issue however is as much with the apologists as the demons. You (unwisely, not knowing forum members' backgrounds) mentioned the IRA, I remember very few apologists for their actions and the equivalent loyalists)beyond their own communities at the time

[Trickytreesreds]

No one's demonising a whole whole group of society. The radicals may only be 10 % of the Islamic population.
However, those 10 % are a danger by themselves and they also carry influence within their communities and Mosques.
1. polls have shown that 60%. would not report a fellow Muslim to the police, they think is involved in terrorism
2. They believe the Jews run the police
3. ****age criminal gangs in south London are calling themselves the Muslim Boys and claiming to espouse Islam in an attempt to gain street credibility and trade on false perceptions about links to terrorists.


It's a problem that has been side stepped and the topic avoided at all costs, in case folks get upset.
Yet here we are. MP's now signing off £34 million for private protection.
Will there be protection issued to schools/ colleges next?

Maybe just up hold the law and grow a spine may help.

It can be done, But human nature means boundaries will be pushed otherwise.
This country would take 12 YEARS TO GET THIS FAR, with all the cry babies and money making lawyers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68378736

[ramAnag]

1. Yes you have, its been a repeated comeback or I wouldn't comment on it

2. Yes I agree but even the trusted (non-partisan part of) HMG identify it as by far the major threat. Just a fact, not my opinion, your failure to acknowlege that despite a number of prompts makes you come over more as a politician than a (profession deleted)

3. Nor would demonise, my issue however is as much with the apologists as the demons. You (unwisely, not knowing forum members' backgrounds) mentioned the IRA, I remember very few apologists for their actions and the equivalent loyalists)beyond their own communities at the time

1. If it’s been a ‘repeated comeback’ there’ll be evidence. I don’t see any.

2. I’m no politician.

3. I’m sincerely sorry if my mention of the IRA has upset anyone but honestly…we can’t acknowledge sensibilities we know nothing of and I haven’t actually said anything contentious. I suppose my point is that people generally have been far more forgiving of the Irish than they are of Muslims…possibly because there are Irish sports stars, boy bands, comedians etc and few Muslim equivalents.

[Geoff Parkstone]

1. If it’s been a ‘repeated comeback’ there’ll be evidence. I don’t see any.

2. I’m no politician.

3. I’m sincerely sorry if my mention of the IRA has upset anyone but honestly…we can’t acknowledge sensibilities we know nothing of and I haven’t actually said anything contentious. I suppose my point is that people generally have been far more forgiving of the Irish than they are of Muslims…possibly because there are Irish sports stars, boy bands, comedians etc and few Muslim equivalents.

How do you know I'm not Moslem rA?

I'll give you that there are few Moslem boy bands but I think that fact's a winner for team Moslem over team Ireland. No Moslem sports stars? How about in the England cricket team - Ali & Rashid vs Morgan. Comics? There are some around but maybe give that one to the Irish for Dave Allen alone.

[ramAnag]

How do you know I'm not Moslem rA?

I'll give you that there are few Moslem boy bands but I think that fact's a winner for team Moslem over team Ireland. No Moslem sports stars? How about in the England cricket team - Ali & Rashid vs Morgan. Comics? There are some around but maybe give that one to the Irish for Dave Allen alone.

I nearly asked Andy the same question.
Because there are very few, if any, Muslims called Roger.

[Andy_Faber]

I nearly asked Andy the same question.
Because there are very few, if any, Muslims called Roger.

I was going to suggest Roger Binny but i now think he’s Christian

Disappointing thing about this thread is we started so well on a number of subjects but have descended into the usual Islam bitchfest with a small side order of immigration. I get the same in many ‘real’ settings too (as an observer, I seldom get into discussions)!which is a bit of a shame…

[Trickytreesreds]

I was going to suggest Roger Binny but i now think he’s Christian

Disappointing thing about this thread is we started so well on a number of subjects but have descended into the usual Islam bitchfest with a small side order of immigration. I get the same in many ‘real’ settings too (as an observer, I seldom get into discussions)!which is a bit of a shame…

Andy, the Muslim thing was the hot topic of the week.
It reared it's head in parliament, with skullduggery by Starmer, trying to appease/ head off trouble among his ranks.
It's extended into MP intimidation and threats.
This is an election year, and Palestine should be way down the list on hot topics internally.

It shows how ****ed up British politics is.

[Trickytreesreds]

NB, its bye election day.
Ali and Gallaway are standing on the policy of Gaza first, Rochdale second? WTF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE

[swaledale]

Andy, the Muslim thing was the hot topic of the week.
It reared it's head in parliament, with skullduggery by Starmer, trying to appease/ head off trouble among his ranks.
It's extended into MP intimidation and threats.
This is an election year, and Palestine should be way down the list on hot topics internally.

It shows how ****ed up British politics is.

Actually the Muslim/Islamist **** stirring has been a fetaure of the Tories and right wing groups for many years and the Tories have double down on it this past couple of weeks, becuase they think it plays to a certain base of voters. In eality its not the issue with voters they seem to think it is

[ramAnag]

I was going to suggest Roger Binny but i now think he’s Christian

Disappointing thing about this thread is we started so well on a number of subjects but have descended into the usual Islam bitchfest with a small side order of immigration. I get the same in many ‘real’ settings too (as an observer, I seldom get into discussions)!which is a bit of a shame…

Tbf it’s been taken that way by a combination of circumstances and the return of our most right wing contributor outside of Barnsley.

A thread like this is always going to be topical and in an attempt to detract from some more important issues and appeal to the populist mentality amongst a minority of the electorate I expect the right whingers to make as much political capital out of fears regarding Muslims and immigration as they can. Smoke and mirrors.