Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

Amazing…from their huge and ‘stonking’ majority of four and a half years ago to complete and unprecedented chaos, with 78 - and counting - Tory MP’s walking away. So pleased to see the back of crazy Gove, cruel Leadsom and the frankly bizarre Redwood, but if we’re really also seeing the end of Grant Shapps it’ll almost feel like an election victory already.

I’m worried for you, You’re running out of people to slag off

[MadAmster]

I’m worried for you, You’re running out of people to slag off

I wouldn't worry if I were you, AF. It won't be long before the Red Tories prove as incompetent as their Blue counterparts and he can start on them. I'm merely wondering who'll get into 'em first, rA or TTR

[swaledale]

I’m worried for you, You’re running out of people to slag off

Hardly there are another couple of hundred or so Try MP's!! My greatest hope that we see Truss and Rees-Mogg defeated at the poll.


I note Johnson has been writing BS in the daily fail again, claiming Starmer will be a socialist PM!! I mean as per usual he is completely wrong (unfortunately).

[ramAnag]

I’m worried for you, You’re running out of people to slag off

Oh come on Andy, even you can’t deny they deserve it, and I haven’t even mentioned Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Truss, Anderson and Hancock.
Let’s face it…the standard of leadership, from the Post Office to Government, in this country is at an all time low in terms of both capability and integrity.
You were warned, but when people start looking up to the likes of Johnson, Farage and Trump then it does tend to all end in tears…just been a little quicker than anticipated.

[macstheman]

The world looks slightly less gruesome as spring rolls into summer.
Rams promoted and the Blue corner 'doomed, aye they're doomed'!

[ramAnag]

I wouldn't worry if I were you, AF. It won't be long before the Red Tories prove as incompetent as their Blue counterparts and he can start on them. I'm merely wondering who'll get into 'em first, rA or TTR

Strange post, MA. There’s a difference between, in your words, ‘getting into’ a Government that’s been overseeing disasters for the last 8-14 years and finding fault with those who are new to office. I certainly have no intention of ‘starting on’ any newly elected Labour Government, indeed it seems to be you ‘getting into’ them with your repeated ‘Red Tory’ taunt even at this early stage of the election campaign.

Must say, as someone who regularly agrees with you, I’m surprised and a little puzzled. We may only see a change from an increasingly Right wing Tory Government to a marginally Left of centre Labour one, but that’ll be a very welcome change imo. From what you’ve written recently I’m not actually sure what you, realistically, want the outcome to be.

[MadAmster]

Strange post, MA. There’s a difference between, in your words, ‘getting into’ a Government that’s been overseeing disasters for the last 8-14 years and finding fault with those who are new to office. I certainly have no intention of ‘starting on’ any newly elected Labour Government, indeed it seems to be you ‘getting into’ them with your repeated ‘Red Tory’ taunt even at this early stage of the election campaign.

Must say, as someone who regularly agrees with you, I’m surprised and a little puzzled. We may only see a change from an increasingly Right wing Tory Government to a marginally Left of centre Labour one, but that’ll be a very welcome change imo. From what you’ve written recently I’m not actually sure what you, realistically, want the outcome to be.

Nuance seems to get lost on social media, even with an emoji. What do I want the outcome to be? Tories out, for one. That will put Labour in power, however, there's about the depth of a Rizla paper between the main policies as so far published. I sincerely hope Starmer et al come out with some "proper" policies that help those worse off and do something to bridge the wealth gap that has grown over the past 14 years. Social policies that help those who can't look after themselves. There's nothing wrong with making a profit but excessive ones, even more so when created by outside circumstances, should be subject to a "windfall" tax.

The 2 policies I've seen mooted thus far. From the Blue side, a year's National Service. That will see them lose a lot of votes from the young. From the Red side, reversing the tax breaks bankers have received over the past decade should (but likely won't) improve Labour's share of the vote.

Brexit? Starmer has said they won't be looking to reverse it but I would hope he's sensible enough to be less antagonistic towards the EU and engages in serious talks for cooperation between the UK and the EU on things like proper immigration control at the outside borders of the EU. Re-engage in the sort of agreements we had pre Brexit. Reopen immigration offices in the EU and/or "in the region", somewhere in North Africa where people can apply for asylum rather than risking their lives on one or more tricky sea crossings.

Also hoping that the pro Indy parties in Scotland sweep the board. That would give them a mandate for a referendum and, should #10 refuse them one, I fully expect Swinney to go via the UN where Law appears give countries the right to hold a referendum on independence.

[Andy_Faber]

Nuance seems to get lost on social media, even with an emoji. What do I want the outcome to be? Tories out, for one. That will put Labour in power, however, there's about the depth of a Rizla paper between the main policies as so far published. I sincerely hope Starmer et al come out with some "proper" policies that help those worse off and do something to bridge the wealth gap that has grown over the past 14 years. Social policies that help those who can't look after themselves. There's nothing wrong with making a profit but excessive ones, even more so when created by outside circumstances, should be subject to a "windfall" tax.

The 2 policies I've seen mooted thus far. From the Blue side, a year's National Service. That will see them lose a lot of votes from the young. From the Red side, reversing the tax breaks bankers have received over the past decade should (but likely won't) improve Labour's share of the vote.

Brexit? Starmer has said they won't be looking to reverse it but I would hope he's sensible enough to be less antagonistic towards the EU and engages in serious talks for cooperation between the UK and the EU on things like proper immigration control at the outside borders of the EU. Re-engage in the sort of agreements we had pre Brexit. Reopen immigration offices in the EU and/or "in the region", somewhere in North Africa where people can apply for asylum rather than risking their lives on one or more tricky sea crossings.

Also hoping that the pro Indy parties in Scotland sweep the board. That would give them a mandate for a referendum and, should #10 refuse them one, I fully expect Swinney to go via the UN where Law appears give countries the right to hold a referendum on independence.

Interesting manifesto and a nice change to see one instead of the stream of slatings.

I’d add on the social policies one ‘and be harder on those who won’t help themselves

I don’t have a view on Scottish independence (especially last week when I was the only English with nine Scots in the house!) but I think the SNP have missed their moment

[ramAnag]

Nuance seems to get lost on social media, even with an emoji. What do I want the outcome to be? Tories out, for one. That will put Labour in power, however, there's about the depth of a Rizla paper between the main policies as so far published. I sincerely hope Starmer et al come out with some "proper" policies that help those worse off and do something to bridge the wealth gap that has grown over the past 14 years. Social policies that help those who can't look after themselves. There's nothing wrong with making a profit but excessive ones, even more so when created by outside circumstances, should be subject to a "windfall" tax.

The 2 policies I've seen mooted thus far. From the Blue side, a year's National Service. That will see them lose a lot of votes from the young. From the Red side, reversing the tax breaks bankers have received over the past decade should (but likely won't) improve Labour's share of the vote.

Brexit? Starmer has said they won't be looking to reverse it but I would hope he's sensible enough to be less antagonistic towards the EU and engages in serious talks for cooperation between the UK and the EU on things like proper immigration control at the outside borders of the EU. Re-engage in the sort of agreements we had pre Brexit. Reopen immigration offices in the EU and/or "in the region", somewhere in North Africa where people can apply for asylum rather than risking their lives on one or more tricky sea crossings.

Also hoping that the pro Indy parties in Scotland sweep the board. That would give them a mandate for a referendum and, should #10 refuse them one, I fully expect Swinney to go via the UN where Law appears give countries the right to hold a referendum on independence.

So, as originally thought - and with the exception of Scotland - we are in near complete agreement.
There is however no magic wand…the country is in an almost unprecedented mess but there is, sadly, little appetite for the type of ‘quiet revolution’ that you and I probably both favour.
Corbyn proved that…probably a very principled and decent man, but a lousy leader who allowed the right wing media to demonise him and was, as a result, partly responsible for the post Referendum sh1t show we’re all familiar with.
Starmer may not be as Left wing as you would like, I get that, but over the last four years and three PM’s he’s made Labour electable again and that, imo, is the first step on the long road to our shared aspiration of a fairer and more compassionate society.

[MadAmster]

Interesting manifesto and a nice change to see one instead of the stream of slatings.

I’d add on the social policies one ‘and be harder on those who won’t help themselves

I don’t have a view on Scottish independence (especially last week when I was the only English with nine Scots in the house!) but I think the SNP have missed their moment

I agree. I mentioned "can't", that excludes, to me, those who "won't".

[swaledale]

Who are these mysterious people who "won't" help themselves? I find funny that people think they are getting away with something, I mean if life was that brilliant on benefits, why aren't you doing it yourself? And no don't come back with because I have more pride and self respect!! Thats *******s, life on benefits is no sinecure.

I'll wait now for the anecdotal evidence of people on benefits who have the latest everything, drive new cars and holiday in the Caribbean!! Most of which is total horse****.

On the other hand I know quite a few "businessmen" whose declared income is far below mine but enjoy a lifestyle that is beyond what I could or would wish to fund.

I for one think paying some of the useless lummocks, the unemployable the social misfits a basic income solves more problems than it creates. Reduces crime costs to justice system, prison etc. and frankly having had the "pleasure" of employing some of them, saves a lot of hassle in the long run.

There will always be a section of society unfit for work and unable to raise their skill level to the work that is available, given that 100,000's of low skilled jobs have disappeared over the decades, what's the solution.

Mind you with AI taking over even skilled jobs, many who might have thought they were skilled and n secure jobs might be casting around for something to do!

In terms of facts its worth pointing out that 50% or thereabouts of welfare expenditure is on pensions and that tax fraud and avoidance costs the UK much more than benefit fraud and of course people on benefits spend their benefits into the local economy whereas tax fraud and avoidance tends to see the money leave the UK or not spent locally.

But of course one wouldn't get the same sense of smug self aggrandisement as is clearly enjoyed by "punching down" on the so called "skivers" rather than those cheating the economy or like P & O CEO being paid 6 figure sums and exploiting workers.

[swaledale]

So, as originally thought - and with the exception of Scotland - we are in near complete agreement.
There is however no magic wand…the country is in an almost unprecedented mess but there is, sadly, little appetite for the type of ‘quiet revolution’ that you and I probably both favour.
Corbyn proved that…probably a very principled and decent man, but a lousy leader who allowed the right wing media to demonise him and was, as a result, partly responsible for the post Referendum sh1t show we’re all familiar with.
Starmer may not be as Left wing as you would like, I get that, but over the last four years and three PM’s he’s made Labour electable again and that, imo, is the first step on the long road to our shared aspiration of a fairer and more compassionate society.

The thing is rA, in a FPTP system, a party needs a broad range of voters to vote them into power, Corbyn got the popular vote, but it was concentrated in areas where Labour would win anyway.

[ramAnag]

The thing is rA, in a FPTP system, a party needs a broad range of voters to vote them into power, Corbyn got the popular vote, but it was concentrated in areas where Labour would win anyway.

Facts remain though that, until things change, we do have a FPTP system, the winning party does need to appeal to a ‘broad range of voters’ and under Corbyn they clearly didn’t as Labour recorded their worst GE result for 84 years.

[MadAmster]

IMO, whether it's FPTP or PR or whatever, you need to appeal to more than just your core support to win an election.

[SithHappens]

IMO, whether it's FPTP or PR or whatever, you need to appeal to more than just your core support to win an election.

must admit don't fully understand but with PR don't you need a majority share of the vote? i.e 50 % plus? That never happens