Election Year or Fear!

[swaledale]

…but the tax change will only hurt those middle earners grafting to improve their kids’ chances, it’s an irrelevance to the swans milk-quaffing Quentins of this world. Still it will appeal to those who only think of the ‘headline - a ‘populist’ policy, who’d have thought it of Labour?

Criticisms aimed at the policy not you btw, and I think TTR’s missed the point that we are talking about education because that’s just the current subject matter

Well done guys! I mean my point was really the irony of a bunch of privileged and rich tw@ts making out that they are on the side of the "ordinary person" and being believed by rather poorer tw@ts bless them!

I note a comment about what Clarkson thinks, mm now who does he hang around with? Oh yes that bunch of tw@ts in Oxfordshire including "Lord" Cameron the guy who started the whole ****ing decline in the UK, not that it affects him of course with his millions from dubious foreign sources. So if thick people think his judgement is sound, again, bless them!

But as you've raised the tax on private schools, not sure who these middle earners are who are grafting to improve their kids chances, but if someone can afford to pay £5K a term to send their little darling to private school, another £1k isn't going to be unaffordable, I mean sure they might have to not go skiing at Xmas, but hey sacrifices have to be made!

Also given these people in the higher income bracket, are going to be living in wealthier areas where the state education system is going to be better, I really don't see what the issue is. Its not as if they are trying to avoid sending little Jill or Jonnie to a school in a deprived area is it?

And its not a populist headline Policy, its a way of funding state education with a tax, which the vast majority of voters won't give a toss about! Judging by the squeals coming from the right wing media, they have got that about right.

I mean whoever gets in, tax has got to be raised unless the magic money tree or the stupid and illogical "fiscal rules" Labour have imposed on themselves are ignored.

[swaledale]

This a typical reform voter, interviewed the other night in Swindon -

"Why are you voting for Reform?"
"Because these immigrants come over here and take our jobs, I haven't been able to get a job for over 3 years"
"You haven't had a job for 3 years?"
"No, nobody will take me on. I do have a criminal record nobody will look at me"
"You have a criminal record?"
"Yes, for assault, I came out of prison 3 years ago!"

I mean I know Reform voters like to blame others for their **** lives, but....

[MadAmster]

It seems, whoever gets in, there will be no increase in Income Tax, NICs and VAT. Con/Lab/LibD have said roughly the same. What they haven't said, from what I've seen over here, is where the extra money is going to come from.

Apologies if I've got it wrong, but it looks to me like all 3 are going to plug some loopholes and hope, it's no more than hope, that they get a lot from things like scrapping non-Dom, closing tax loopholes, making tax evasion harder... I bet accountants up and down the country are rubbing their hands at all the extra they'll make from their clients dreaming up new ways to get round paying tax.

Labour have said they'll put VAT on private schools fees. That's about it, as far as I can see.

Why aren't Labour and LibDem going after dodgy Covid PPE billions? What aren't they chasing Baroness Mone and Hancock's favourite Pub Landlord among others for the profits they made on deals that have been labelled illegal in Court? Chase however many billions is unaccounted for?

A wing and a prayer doesn't seem to me to be the best way forward for UK PLC but, again please correct me if I'm wrong, that does seem to be what the parties are suggesting.

Windfall taxes are something I'd push for. If a company's profits rise immensely because of something innovative they've done then let them and their shareholders wallow in the financial glory. I have no problem with that. Conversely, it seems Tesco's profits have gone up by getting on £2Bn during a cost of living crisis. I'd say to anybody in Governement, let's have some of that. I'd also be in favour of giving Tesco, for instance, the opposite of a windfall tax, a sort of downpour rebate if they, through no fault of their own, had a less than successful year. Fairness for all.

Now, I'm now going to venture where no man should go, things I don't know about. I do know the various rates of Tax in NL, be that personal income tax, company profit, dividends... Is it the same in the UK that income derived through capital be that fron dividends, share dealings, income from rental portfolios and other income derived through capital is taxed at a lower rate than income through work. Personally, I find that abhorrent. A earns 30K monetary units a year working 9 to 5 in an office, sweeping the streets, nursing or whatever. He'll pay more tax on that income than B who makes 30K monetary units a year buying and sellin stocks and shares, "investing" in ******* or living off the proceeds of the shares he inherited from his parents. Your income is 30K, no matter how you got it, we should all pay the same tax on it. Here in NL, that's not the case, is it the same in the UK?

[Andy_Faber]

Well done guys! I mean my point was really the irony of a bunch of privileged and rich tw@ts making out that they are on the side of the "ordinary person" and being believed by rather poorer tw@ts bless them!

I note a comment about what Clarkson thinks, mm now who does he hang around with? Oh yes that bunch of tw@ts in Oxfordshire including "Lord" Cameron the guy who started the whole ****ing decline in the UK, not that it affects him of course with his millions from dubious foreign sources. So if thick people think his judgement is sound, again, bless them!

But as you've raised the tax on private schools, not sure who these middle earners are who are grafting to improve their kids chances, but if someone can afford to pay £5K a term to send their little darling to private school, another £1k isn't going to be unaffordable, I mean sure they might have to not go skiing at Xmas, but hey sacrifices have to be made!

Also given these people in the higher income bracket, are going to be living in wealthier areas where the state education system is going to be better, I really don't see what the issue is. Its not as if they are trying to avoid sending little Jill or Jonnie to a school in a deprived area is it?

And its not a populist headline Policy, its a way of funding state education with a tax, which the vast majority of voters won't give a toss about! Judging by the squeals coming from the right wing media, they have got that about right.

I mean whoever gets in, tax has got to be raised unless the magic money tree or the stupid and illogical "fiscal rules" Labour have imposed on themselves are ignored.

Reinforcing my point that the proposal is aimed at spiteful people. Swale, yet again you don’t have a clue

[Andy_Faber]

It seems, whoever gets in, there will be no increase in Income Tax, NICs and VAT. Con/Lab/LibD have said roughly the same. What they haven't said, from what I've seen over here, is where the extra money is going to come from.

Apologies if I've got it wrong, but it looks to me like all 3 are going to plug some loopholes and hope, it's no more than hope, that they get a lot from things like scrapping non-Dom, closing tax loopholes, making tax evasion harder... I bet accountants up and down the country are rubbing their hands at all the extra they'll make from their clients dreaming up new ways to get round paying tax.

Labour have said they'll put VAT on private schools fees. That's about it, as far as I can see.

Why aren't Labour and LibDem going after dodgy Covid PPE billions? What aren't they chasing Baroness Mone and Hancock's favourite Pub Landlord among others for the profits they made on deals that have been labelled illegal in Court? Chase however many billions is unaccounted for?

A wing and a prayer doesn't seem to me to be the best way forward for UK PLC but, again please correct me if I'm wrong, that does seem to be what the parties are suggesting.

Windfall taxes are something I'd push for. If a company's profits rise immensely because of something innovative they've done then let them and their shareholders wallow in the financial glory. I have no problem with that. Conversely, it seems Tesco's profits have gone up by getting on £2Bn during a cost of living crisis. I'd say to anybody in Governement, let's have some of that. I'd also be in favour of giving Tesco, for instance, the opposite of a windfall tax, a sort of downpour rebate if they, through no fault of their own, had a less than successful year. Fairness for all.

Now, I'm now going to venture where no man should go, things I don't know about. I do know the various rates of Tax in NL, be that personal income tax, company profit, dividends... Is it the same in the UK that income derived through capital be that fron dividends, share dealings, income from rental portfolios and other income derived through capital is taxed at a lower rate than income through work. Personally, I find that abhorrent. A earns 30K monetary units a year working 9 to 5 in an office, sweeping the streets, nursing or whatever. He'll pay more tax on that income than B who makes 30K monetary units a year buying and sellin stocks and shares, "investing" in ******* or living off the proceeds of the shares he inherited from his parents. Your income is 30K, no matter how you got it, we should all pay the same tax on it. Here in NL, that's not the case, is it the same in the UK?

Not like that in U.K. MA, all taxed at the marginal rate (if the income is in the hands of individuals)

[Andy_Faber]

It seems, whoever gets in, there will be no increase in Income Tax, NICs and VAT. Con/Lab/LibD have said roughly the same. What they haven't said, from what I've seen over here, is where the extra money is going to come from.

Apologies if I've got it wrong, but it looks to me like all 3 are going to plug some loopholes and hope, it's no more than hope, that they get a lot from things like scrapping non-Dom, closing tax loopholes, making tax evasion harder... I bet accountants up and down the country are rubbing their hands at all the extra they'll make from their clients dreaming up new ways to get round paying tax.

Labour have said they'll put VAT on private schools fees. That's about it, as far as I can see.

Why aren't Labour and LibDem going after dodgy Covid PPE billions? What aren't they chasing Baroness Mone and Hancock's favourite Pub Landlord among others for the profits they made on deals that have been labelled illegal in Court? Chase however many billions is unaccounted for?

A wing and a prayer doesn't seem to me to be the best way forward for UK PLC but, again please correct me if I'm wrong, that does seem to be what the parties are suggesting.

Windfall taxes are something I'd push for. If a company's profits rise immensely because of something innovative they've done then let them and their shareholders wallow in the financial glory. I have no problem with that. Conversely, it seems Tesco's profits have gone up by getting on £2Bn during a cost of living crisis. I'd say to anybody in Governement, let's have some of that. I'd also be in favour of giving Tesco, for instance, the opposite of a windfall tax, a sort of downpour rebate if they, through no fault of their own, had a less than successful year. Fairness for all.

Now, I'm now going to venture where no man should go, things I don't know about. I do know the various rates of Tax in NL, be that personal income tax, company profit, dividends... Is it the same in the UK that income derived through capital be that fron dividends, share dealings, income from rental portfolios and other income derived through capital is taxed at a lower rate than income through work. Personally, I find that abhorrent. A earns 30K monetary units a year working 9 to 5 in an office, sweeping the streets, nursing or whatever. He'll pay more tax on that income than B who makes 30K monetary units a year buying and sellin stocks and shares, "investing" in ******* or living off the proceeds of the shares he inherited from his parents. Your income is 30K, no matter how you got it, we should all pay the same tax on it. Here in NL, that's not the case, is it the same in the UK?

We’ve been talking a lot about tax take, and in my accidental profession/revenue earning hobby I get taxed at many stages, and they’ve all been squeezed in terms of rate or allowance over the years. It’s made many landlords very bitter and enough have left the field to have exacerbated the rental stock shortage. We’ve decided to stay in, but in our case it most definitely HASNT been and ISNT ‘unearned’ income, I/we have physically financially and intellectually popped a ******* to get where we are and I consider any rewards to be earned. I have no problem paying any of the taxes due and can see the logic in their tightening.

[ramAnag]

…but the tax change will only hurt those middle earners grafting to improve their kids’ chances, it’s an irrelevance to the swans milk-quaffing Quentins of this world. Still it will appeal to those who only think of the ‘headline - a ‘populist’ policy, who’d have thought it of Labour?

Criticisms aimed at the policy not you btw, and I think TTR’s missed the point that we are talking about education because that’s just the current subject matter

TTR invariably misses the point, nothing new there and I didn’t think your comments were aimed at me.

Really not sure it’s a genuinely ‘populist’ policy though. Hardly ‘dog whistle’ politics is it? If anything, MA’s clawing back the ‘Covid billions’ strategy, the sentiment of which I wholeheartedly agree with, might be considered far more of a vote winner than VAT on school fees.

You seem a little hung up on this…only attractive to ‘spiteful people’ thing. Don’t really understand why. There are genuine reasons for and against it which should, imo, be properly considered.

Anyway…not many more ‘spiteful’ people in the world than the aforementioned Clarkson and this forum is also proving to be a fairly unpleasant and spiteful ‘place’ to be at the moment. Only another nine days of electioneering to go.

[Andy_Faber]

TTR invariably misses the point, nothing new there and I didn’t think your comments were aimed at me.

Really not sure it’s a genuinely ‘populist’ policy though. Hardly ‘dog whistle’ politics is it? If anything, MA’s clawing back the ‘Covid billions’ strategy, the sentiment of which I wholeheartedly agree with, might be considered far more of a vote winner than VAT on school fees.

You seem a little hung up on this…only attractive to ‘spiteful people’ thing. Don’t really understand why. There are genuine reasons for and against it which should, imo, be properly considered.

Anyway…not many more ‘spiteful’ people in the world than the aforementioned Clarkson and this forum is also proving to be a fairly unpleasant and spiteful ‘place’ to be at the moment. Only another nine days of electioneering to go.

Don’t use catchphrases, makes you sound like Swale and I’m trying hard to differentiate you

If you don’t get the ‘spiteful’ comment you should get around social media more. Putting one’s head above the parapet with Tory-liking or even balanced opinions result in a torrent of abuse, VAT on school fees being one such. ‘Hung up’ is the wrong phrase, you’ll find I am more opinionated when I have, or have had, ‘skin in the game’

[ramAnag]

Don’t use catchphrases, makes you sound like Swale and I’m trying hard to differentiate you

If you don’t get the ‘spiteful’ comment you should get around social media more. Putting one’s head above the parapet with Tory-liking or even balanced opinions result in a torrent of abuse, VAT on school fees being one such. ‘Hung up’ is the wrong phrase, you’ll find I am more opinionated when I have, or have had, ‘skin in the game’

I’m afraid you rather rest my case.
You’re a moderator, the name is a clue. I couldn’t care less about your endless spat with Swale and I don’t think I’ve used a ‘catchphrase’ but please don’t start telling me what to do and what not to do…that really isn’t how this works.
Putting ‘one’s head above the parapet’ is always likely to result in some abuse from one side or the other and I guess ‘Tory-liking’, if that’s what you do, is likely to be particularly unpopular after the performances of the last few years and most recent leaders. Having said that, although I frequently disagree with you, I don’t think I’ve ever been guilty of abuse and perhaps the spitefulness you speak of is a damned good reason not to follow your recommendation and ‘get around social media more’.

[Andy_Faber]

It seems, whoever gets in, there will be no increase in Income Tax, NICs and VAT. Con/Lab/LibD have said roughly the same. What they haven't said, from what I've seen over here, is where the extra money is going to come from.

Apologies if I've got it wrong, but it looks to me like all 3 are going to plug some loopholes and hope, it's no more than hope, that they get a lot from things like scrapping non-Dom, closing tax loopholes, making tax evasion harder... I bet accountants up and down the country are rubbing their hands at all the extra they'll make from their clients dreaming up new ways to get round paying tax.

Labour have said they'll put VAT on private schools fees. That's about it, as far as I can see.

Why aren't Labour and LibDem going after dodgy Covid PPE billions? What aren't they chasing Baroness Mone and Hancock's favourite Pub Landlord among others for the profits they made on deals that have been labelled illegal in Court? Chase however many billions is unaccounted for?

A wing and a prayer doesn't seem to me to be the best way forward for UK PLC but, again please correct me if I'm wrong, that does seem to be what the parties are suggesting.

Windfall taxes are something I'd push for. If a company's profits rise immensely because of something innovative they've done then let them and their shareholders wallow in the financial glory. I have no problem with that. Conversely, it seems Tesco's profits have gone up by getting on £2Bn during a cost of living crisis. I'd say to anybody in Governement, let's have some of that. I'd also be in favour of giving Tesco, for instance, the opposite of a windfall tax, a sort of downpour rebate if they, through no fault of their own, had a less than successful year. Fairness for all.

Now, I'm now going to venture where no man should go, things I don't know about. I do know the various rates of Tax in NL, be that personal income tax, company profit, dividends... Is it the same in the UK that income derived through capital be that fron dividends, share dealings, income from rental portfolios and other income derived through capital is taxed at a lower rate than income through work. Personally, I find that abhorrent. A earns 30K monetary units a year working 9 to 5 in an office, sweeping the streets, nursing or whatever. He'll pay more tax on that income than B who makes 30K monetary units a year buying and sellin stocks and shares, "investing" in ******* or living off the proceeds of the shares he inherited from his parents. Your income is 30K, no matter how you got it, we should all pay the same tax on it. Here in NL, that's not the case, is it the same in the UK?

Sorry forgot capital gains tax which IS lower and has two bands the top of which is about half of salaried income tax. Not sold anything recently is my excuse for forgetting that. Remember however that property assets are subject to tax and improvements incur unrecoverable VAT

[Andy_Faber]

I’m afraid you rather rest my case.
You’re a moderator, the name is a clue. I couldn’t care less about your endless spat with Swale and I don’t think I’ve used a ‘catchphrase’ but please don’t start telling me what to do and what not to do…that really isn’t how this works.
Putting ‘one’s head above the parapet’ is always likely to result in some abuse from one side or the other and I guess ‘Tory-liking’, if that’s what you do, is likely to be particularly unpopular after the performances of the last few years and most recent leaders. Having said that, although I frequently disagree with you, I don’t think I’ve ever been guilty of abuse and perhaps the spitefulness you speak of is a damned good reason not to follow your recommendation and ‘get around social media more’.

To each their own, although reading some of the bile therein I can see why the more sensitive of us suffer mental health problems

[ramAnag]

To each their own, although reading some of the bile therein I can see why the more sensitive of us suffer mental health problems

Sorry…no idea what that means, where it’s come from or who it’s aimed at and as I see this forum is no longer ‘actively moderated’ it’s probably a good time to take a step back.

[Trickytreesreds]

TTR invariably misses the point, nothing new there and I didn’t think your comments were aimed at me.

Really not sure it’s a genuinely ‘populist’ policy though. Hardly ‘dog whistle’ politics is it? If anything, MA’s clawing back the ‘Covid billions’ strategy, the sentiment of which I wholeheartedly agree with, might be considered far more of a vote winner than VAT on school fees.

You seem a little hung up on this…only attractive to ‘spiteful people’ thing. Don’t really understand why. There are genuine reasons for and against it which should, imo, be properly considered.

Anyway…not many more ‘spiteful’ people in the world than the aforementioned Clarkson and this forum is also proving to be a fairly unpleasant and spiteful ‘place’ to be at the moment. Only another nine days of electioneering to go.

Spiteful? I know you avoid the digital world of social media, but if you did look at it once in a while, you'd understand how wrong you are with your interpretation of spite.

The left infest it, with bile and hate and it gets mirrored in here, with the likes of Swale, to anyone, who dares to not back left ideals/ woke ideologies/ Palestine/ BLM/ and god forbid , attempt to praise anything from the Tory camp. The screams of racist/bigot/ little englander/gammon/ mysoginist/ islamophobic/ xenophobic/ echo through the internet. Its relentless and designed shut you up and remove your right to free speech and opinion.
Like this bloke got, just for being an England fan

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/ive-been-branded-racist-draping-29368239

Khan bans England flags from taxis, claiming they are a distraction. Yet Police cars can be painted rainbow ccolours/ lamp posts adorned with palestine flags/ LGBTQ whatever flags strung across the road? Criticise it? Get your tin hat on.

Then again, when people like Rayner, can take a platform and yell Tory scum at a party conference, whipping up the natives, it is hardly surprising.
Same as the Farage, milkshakes. The left found it hilarious and memes ran through social media with loads of vile messages. Yet the day that changes and its acid, the silence will be defening.
We've already had 2 deaths from spite.

[Trickytreesreds]

Is it time for proportional representation?

Read a report today, that the combined support for Labour/Tories, is the lowest since 1918.
There are many voters out there that are demanding a say in West Minster.
FPTP, is now void, when the 2 main parties are that close, a fag paper wouldn't split them. That's why I stick to my guns, that under Starmer, you will see nothing change. There is/will be no direct pressure for something different.

[swaledale]

Spiteful? I know you avoid the digital world of social media, but if you did look at it once in a while, you'd understand how wrong you are with your interpretation of spite.

The left infest it, with bile and hate and it gets mirrored in here, with the likes of Swale, to anyone, who dares to not back left ideals/ woke ideologies/ Palestine/ BLM/ and god forbid , attempt to praise anything from the Tory camp. The screams of racist/bigot/ little englander/gammon/ mysoginist/ islamophobic/ xenophobic/ echo through the internet. Its relentless and designed shut you up and remove your right to free speech and opinion.
Like this bloke got, just for being an England fan

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/ive-been-branded-racist-draping-29368239

Khan bans England flags from taxis, claiming they are a distraction. Yet Police cars can be painted rainbow ccolours/ lamp posts adorned with palestine flags/ LGBTQ whatever flags strung across the road? Criticise it? Get your tin hat on.

Then again, when people like Rayner, can take a platform and yell Tory scum at a party conference, whipping up the natives, it is hardly surprising.
Same as the Farage, milkshakes. The left found it hilarious and memes ran through social media with loads of vile messages. Yet the day that changes and its acid, the silence will be defening.
We've already had 2 deaths from spite.

And so a very good example of somebody trapped in his own bubble who thinks that only his (I'd say opinions but Thicky doesn't have opinions only vague memes picked up from the tinternet, a bizarre sense that somehow the very people who exploit him, rip him and his felow voters off, are the ones that are going to disrupt him, oh well some people are dumb ) world view is being atatcked.

Social media is basically a series of echo chambers where those who think one way agree with each other and attack those who think differently, each left or right wing group spew the same *******s, with a few that have humour and don't take it seriously.

Of course the Reform bots are working overtime to spread lies, but only people with the IQ of gnat, i.e. Thicky believes this ****.

By the way, and this is the very last interaction i will have with you, I am neither left nor right on these matters, most political aprties or ideologies have some good things, though it is hard to put a finger on anything the Tories ahve done right recently but hey I guess there must be soemthing.

But really mate, you keep repeating whats been drummed into your thick skull, like wok ideology, no such thing except in the imagination of the right wing trolls that repeat it. And given Farage has made it his trade mark to peddle lies and stoke division, its not surprising that he reaps what he sows.

No tolerance for violence against politicians or anyone, BUT, it beholds politicians (not that Farage is one, a self obsessed, grifter conning the dim masses is what he is) to act and speak responsibly not whip up hate and division by spewing falsehoods.

Reform have no policies, no solutions and never will ahve, they represent, the old who think the world can be turned back to the 1950's, the thick who are looking for a scapegoat to blame for their own. largely self inflicted ills and the clueless who don't think, haven't a ****ing scooby doo, but think somehow this bloke is "one of us". So tell me if he is one of "you" how has he survived over the past couple of decades without a proper job? I mean you lot do that by fiddling your taxes and benefits obviously, but Farage, where does his money come from?


Now **** off and talk about stuff you have half a clue about, because your posts just demonstrate that a test for sentience should be applied to everybody before they can vote. Mind you vote reform and you've proven yourself to be an idiot and easily conned.