Election Year or Fear!

[swaledale]

....and that regretably for your credibility is you reverting to type and calling into question any assetion which contradicts your own POV. Note that my post used the word 'and' (...he has qualifications) not 'because' (...he had qualifications). Going back to MA's post, IMO not reading a comment properly before responding is as much a lack of intellect as using 'of' instead of 'have'

I can see how your attempt to be the reasonable thinking man's racist wobbles, that plus your undoubted tendency to pull out an anecdote, which is so obviously false, is rather funny.

But its not a question of calling into question any assertion that contradicts my POV.

I mean if you say the earth is flat, you have a POV, its not valid and not based on reality, but its a POV.

Its like claiming to follow the Christian faith and being a capitalist, its a POV which millions have, however its not in any way possible IF one has actually read the basic tents of the Christian faith. But then as with all things people, including myself obviously, adjust their POV and beliefs to fit in with what suits them. Its just that with some people (and Tricky is a prime example) adjust the reality to such an extent that its patently clear they aren't dealing with facts or the actual reality any more.

But hey if you think Reform has any ideas worth considering fill your boots, like the poor mugs that voted Farage in in Clacton, it will soon become obvious that as a critic, as a **** stirrer and identifier of problems, Farage is second to none, as a problem solver and practical politician , well no sign so far that he is capable.

Its not possible to have a reasoned debate with people who have no concept of reality, its irksome to talk to people who whilst I suspect aren't totally stupid, insist on making comments that are.

[MadAmster]

Are you suggesting a correlation there? That’s a bit Swaleist of you. Of the folk I know who are right leaning there’s a massive educational spread - my brickie left school the earliest day possible with no quals (and I think he’s illiterate) and my next door neighbour is a magistrate and has more law quals than I can recount. Being right-leaning is a valid POV held by a wide range of thoughtful people, despite the picture painted by the media

Yes. Suggesting a correlation between a whole host of right wing voters and the total lack of understanding of their own language from Could OFs to their/there/they're and your/you're, the use of are when they mean our and a growing number posting "A think so" rather than "I .....". There will be well educated people among them, Farridge for one, but the plethora of ill written rants on social media does beg the question I asked...

[MadAmster]

Farridge and Wilders. IMO, 2 peas from the same pod. Great at sh1tstirring and pointing out there's a problem but absolutely no idea what practical solutions could be implemented...

[Andy_Faber]

I can see how your attempt to be the reasonable thinking man's racist wobbles, that plus your undoubted tendency to pull out an anecdote, which is so obviously false, is rather funny.

But its not a question of calling into question any assertion that contradicts my POV.

I mean if you say the earth is flat, you have a POV, its not valid and not based on reality, but its a POV.

Its like claiming to follow the Christian faith and being a capitalist, its a POV which millions have, however its not in any way possible IF one has actually read the basic tents of the Christian faith. But then as with all things people, including myself obviously, adjust their POV and beliefs to fit in with what suits them. Its just that with some people (and Tricky is a prime example) adjust the reality to such an extent that its patently clear they aren't dealing with facts or the actual reality any more.

But hey if you think Reform has any ideas worth considering fill your boots, like the poor mugs that voted Farage in in Clacton, it will soon become obvious that as a critic, as a **** stirrer and identifier of problems, Farage is second to none, as a problem solver and practical politician , well no sign so far that he is capable.

Its not possible to have a reasoned debate with people who have no concept of reality, its irksome to talk to people who whilst I suspect aren't totally stupid, insist on making comments that are.

All of my anecdotes are factual but I must admit to occasionally relating a story just to annoy you, my frustration being that you’ve told many folk on here to **** off when you’re losing an argument but never myself

[Geoff Parkstone]

Farridge and Wilders. IMO, 2 peas from the same pod. Great at sh1tstirring and pointing out there's a problem but absolutely no idea what practical solutions could be implemented...

That, IMHO, sums up 95% of politicians worldwide, if not more

[Trickytreesreds]

Okay, I know you’re feeling horribly bitter but if you could stop the name calling it’d probably help. So let’s look, objectively, at the flaws that I’m apparently a ‘clown’ for raising.
Last week Labour got 33.7% of the vote and won 63.2% of seats in Parliament.
Reform won 14.3% of the popular vote which gave them just 5 seats. Compare that with the Lib Dem’s who turned 12.2% of the vote into 72 seats and it’s easy to see how our democracy is flawed.
It’s democratically unacceptable even though, on the other side of the coin, if we added up Tory and Reform votes against those of Labour, LibDems and Greens the ‘score’ would have been something like 38% v 52% and the outcome very similar.

I, of course, am delighted by what’s happened…because, this time, I’m on the winning side but, objectively, it’s a nonsense.

You in comparison are all bitter and twisted. Your theories about this being ‘the immigration election’ and the rise of the Right in France have proved nothing more than wishful thinking on your part, but let’s not dwell on the personal.

Fact is our democracy IS deeply flawed. Part of me finds that funny because you and Farage are now so outraged, and yet in 2016 when a binary democratic decision of enormous consequence was made by around just 38% of the electorate you could barely contain your delight and likewise in 2019, when Johnson won a huge majority on the back of just 43.6% of the popular vote you had no fault to find.

More seriously and objectively…the system is flawed. Those flaws have now been thrown into sharp focus by this election but it is no more flawed than in 2016 and 2019. If you want to debate any necessary change then let’s do so…respectfully and sensibly. If you just want to keep chucking names around and your toys out of the pram then I’m not interested. What goes around comes around Tricky, but I agree we do need change even though it will probably lead to 10-12% of parliamentary seats being held by those with far right views that most decent people find reprehensible.

Yes an no. It is flawed and definitely not fair. I always said so with the SNP, having so many seats for so little voters.
As for your usual snipe about Brexit, you are wrong.
That was a straight up referendum.
Either you voted or didn't.
Of those that did, who won? who got the result that tipped that decision? It was not about seats , a simple mathmatical count.
I'm sure your cartwheels would have been massive had it gone your way, loeads of you thought you had it in the bag. Well you didn't and haven't shut up since.


It's ok you can say it.

As for your views of reprehensible. EVERY PERSON, has a voice. You may not like that, but in a democracy, it has to be upheld.
I find the Greens complete planks and wet fish. Yet they too get stiffed by seats / to votes.
You still have n't answered what I asked. WHY IS EUROPE SEEING A RIGHT SURGE?

Because like it or lump it, folks are not happy with the policies of soft left governments. They won't be happy with this one for long, that I guarantee you.

As for France, they too were stiffed by the left/ far left. What have they got now, as a result? A chaotic government. The French don't do coalitions, they infight like mad.

Brexit/ Reform came about simply because of EU/ UK governments taking the piss.
Europe is back tracking like mad on its mistakes, Denmark/Greece/Germany/Italy to name but a few. That means more are on the way here.
Its too late. The EU / ECHR/ ECJ has a lot to answer for.
Ever remember this one? It caused a storm at the time, but it is now the norm all over Europe. Denmark has had to halve its benefits payments as a result.
All these new houses? Talk about carrot and donkey.

https://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/5025097.fury-at-eu-judgment-on-dependent-somali-womans-right-to-harrow-council-house/

[ramAnag]

Yes an no. It is flawed and definitely not fair. I always said so with the SNP, having so many seats for so little voters.
As for your usual snipe about Brexit, you are wrong.
That was a straight up referendum.
Either you voted or didn't.
Of those that did, who won? who got the result that tipped that decision? It was not about seats , a simple mathmatical count.
I'm sure your cartwheels would have been massive had it gone your way, loeads of you thought you had it in the bag. Well you didn't and haven't shut up since.


It's ok you can say it.

As for your views of reprehensible. EVERY PERSON, has a voice. You may not like that, but in a democracy, it has to be upheld.
I find the Greens complete planks and wet fish. Yet they too get stiffed by seats / to votes.
You still have n't answered what I asked. WHY IS EUROPE SEEING A RIGHT SURGE?

Because like it or lump it, folks are not happy with the policies of soft left governments. They won't be happy with this one for long, that I guarantee you.

As for France, they too were stiffed by the left/ far left. What have they got now, as a result? A chaotic government. The French don't do coalitions, they infight like mad.

Brexit/ Reform came about simply because of EU/ UK governments taking the piss.
Europe is back tracking like mad on its mistakes, Denmark/Greece/Germany/Italy to name but a few. That means more are on the way here.
Its too late. The EU / ECHR/ ECJ has a lot to answer for.
Ever remember this one? It caused a storm at the time, but it is now the norm all over Europe. Denmark has had to halve its benefits payments as a result.
All these new houses? Talk about carrot and donkey.

https://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/5...council-house/

Let’s not do the Brexit thing again, but you make my point…you loved it because you won…just as I loved the GE result because I was on the winning side but…both results were equally unrepresentative which demonstrates why our democracy, which is still infinitely superior to many parts of the world, is flawed and needs addressing/fine tuning.

As for every person having a voice. That’s an oversimplification because they don’t do they? There are things in this country which are absolutely taboo…and rightly so. Personally I regard SOME aspects of far Right ‘thought’ as being equally taboo, so while there is an obvious case suggesting that right wing economic or educational teachings are just another POV, albeit ones that I would probably disagree with, there is, imo, absolutely no place for the FAR right to incite xenophobic based racism, no justification for any system of apartheid and no case for the persecution of those experiencing LGBTQIA issues.

Regarding your obsession with ‘EUROPE SEEING A RIGHT SURGE’…well it wasn’t the case in the UK or France last week was it? In addition MA has provided informed context around perception and reality in the Netherlands, but above all I haven’t ‘answered’ because it’s your issue and a little off topic on a thread which was begun to debate the forthcoming elections in the UK and USA.

[swaledale]

Let’s not do the Brexit thing again, but you make my point…you loved it because you won…just as I loved the GE result because I was on the winning side but…both results were equally unrepresentative which demonstrates why our democracy, which is still infinitely superior to many parts of the world, is flawed and needs addressing/fine tuning.

As for every person having a voice. That’s an oversimplification because they don’t do they? There are things in this country which are absolutely taboo…and rightly so. Personally I regard SOME aspects of far Right ‘thought’ as being equally taboo, so while there is an obvious case suggesting that right wing economic or educational teachings are just another POV, albeit ones that I would probably disagree with, there is, imo, absolutely no place for the FAR right to incite xenophobic based racism, no justification for any system of apartheid and no case for the persecution of those experiencing LGBTQIA issues.

Regarding your obsession with ‘EUROPE SEEING A RIGHT SURGE’…well it wasn’t the case in the UK or France last week was it? In addition MA has provided informed context around perception and reality in the Netherlands, but above all I haven’t ‘answered’ because it’s your issue and a little off topic on a thread which was begun to debate the forthcoming elections in the UK and USA.

You could also point out that Poland recently ejected its authoritarian, religious inspired right wing government to further dismiss Thicky's argument. A government that was looking to control, the media, the judiciary and remove all opposition.

But really rA, your wasting your time debating the points, for some obscure reason he thinks authoritarian, far right regimes that systematically remove citizens rights and have scant regard for international law and opinion are to be lauded? I'm struggling to onder why he hasn't ****ed off to Belarus or Russia then!

In reality of course, its funny how people of his ilk, who have no opinions of their own but latch onto simplistic rabble rousing that "beats down" on those they perceive to be "inferior" to themselves would be very quick to complain when its themselves or their relatives who are on the end of such treatment.

Anyway my advice, leave the deluded dork to his ramblings and enjoy a period where the government whilst not perfect, at the very least appear to be trying to apply practical solutions to real world, have avowed to end so called "culture wars", forget simplistic 3 word slogans and focus on delivery rather than performing like clowns for childish people incapable of coherent thought.

[ramAnag]

You could also point out that Poland recently ejected its authoritarian, religious inspired right wing government to further dismiss Thicky's argument. A government that was looking to control, the media, the judiciary and remove all opposition.

But really rA, your wasting your time debating the points, for some obscure reason he thinks authoritarian, far right regimes that systematically remove citizens rights and have scant regard for international law and opinion are to be lauded? I'm struggling to onder why he hasn't ****ed off to Belarus or Russia then!

In reality of course, its funny how people of his ilk, who have no opinions of their own but latch onto simplistic rabble rousing that "beats down" on those they perceive to be "inferior" to themselves would be very quick to complain when its themselves or their relatives who are on the end of such treatment.

Anyway my advice, leave the deluded dork to his ramblings and enjoy a period where the government whilst not perfect, at the very least appear to be trying to apply practical solutions to real world, have avowed to end so called "culture wars", forget simplistic 3 word slogans and focus on delivery rather than performing like clowns for childish people incapable of coherent thought.

Good advice, fair points and Poland is a further good example. I’m certainly enjoying hearing ‘Prime Minister Starmer’ and living in a Sarah Dines free Derbyshire Dales. A great deal to sort out of course, but long may it last.

[MadAmster]

rA it's also quite good living in a Farridge free EU

[ramAnag]

rA it's also quite good living in a Farridge free EU

I bet! Feel free to take him back. I believe he got his kids German passports immediately after B**x**!

[Andy_Faber]

Yes. Suggesting a correlation between a whole host of right wing voters and the total lack of understanding of their own language from Could OFs to their/there/they're and your/you're, the use of are when they mean our and a growing number posting "A think so" rather than "I .....". There will be well educated people among them, Farridge for one, but the plethora of ill written rants on social media does beg the question I asked...

I think your bias betrays you a bit, I see appalling syntax and grammar from all sides of the political debate, and for that matter in other spheres, notably football, less so motorsport or cricket. I think you’ll find that the language pedants (I’m one to some extent as my editing job demands it) are always onto a loser because language evolves - who’s to say ‘could of’ won’t be THE way to say it in ten years time? My own pet hate is the Americanism ‘Can I get’ rather than ‘May I have’ but I don’t judge those using the phrase, whether their intellect or otherwise

[MadAmster]

I bet! Feel free to take him back. I believe he got his kids German passports immediately after B**x**!

Their mother is German so they were always entitled to a German passport. Both parents of one of Farage's great-grandfathers were Germans who emigrated to London from the Frankfurt area shortly after 1861.

Basically he's a descendent of immigrants who now wants to stop immigration. Similar thoughts to Braverman and Patel...

[Geoff Parkstone]

Good advice, fair points and Poland is a further good example. I’m certainly enjoying hearing ‘Prime Minister Starmer’ and living in a Sarah Dines free Derbyshire Dales. A great deal to sort out of course, but long may it last.

Will be interesting to see, in lets say 12 months, whether either of those factors have made an iota of a difference to your life I guess you might feel a sense of contentedness that "your team" is back in the premiership, but I doubt you'll see anything beneficial has happened. Same ****, different shovel.

[Andy_Faber]

Will be interesting to see, in lets say 12 months, whether either of those factors have made an iota of a difference to your life I guess you might feel a sense of contentedness that "your team" is back in the premiership, but I doubt you'll see anything beneficial has happened. Same ****, different shovel.

My sentiments exactly, in fact one of my stock phrases!