Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

1) I was paraphrasing you. My earlier comment compared to the drugs trade where authorities are fighting like Canute against the Aegir

2) We agree for now, not sure you're quite as open as me to reassessment, time will tell

Swales 'explanation' is factually inaccurate/misleading in a number of regards and demonstrates his bias, as does (unsuccessfully it appears, and the numbers surprised me as well as Swale) his attempt to call out TTR's boat arrivals figure. I won't go into detail on where he's wrong but it doesn't take much research

Hmmm…I certainly seem infinitely more open than you to the possibility of ‘reassessment’ as far as Brexit is concerned…and seeing as we’ve just shown that it’s been utterly counterproductive as far as ‘taking back control of our borders’ is concerned and nothing more than a damned nuisance in every other respect, that would, imo, be no bad thing.

[Andy_Faber]

Hmmm…I certainly seem infinitely more open than you to the possibility of ‘reassessment’ as far as Brexit is concerned…and seeing as we’ve just shown that it’s been utterly counterproductive as far as ‘taking back control of our borders’ is concerned and nothing more than a damned nuisance in every other respect, that would, imo, be no bad thing.

Incorrect I’m open to all manner of improvements in relations with EU, pretty similar to KS if he is a man of his word, you appear to only be open to the fantasy scenario of rejoining EU. Ain’t gonna happen in our lifetimes

I presume lack of response my observation on Swale’s comment means you too are checking out their accuracy

[ramAnag]

Incorrect I’m open to all manner of improvements in relations with EU, pretty similar to KS if he is a man of his word, you appear to only be open to the fantasy scenario of rejoining EU. Ain’t gonna happen in our lifetimes

I presume lack of response my observation on Swale’s comment means you too are checking out their accuracy

Lol…not at all. I’ve only referred to ‘reassessment’ and that, imo, is absolutely necessary in terms of our relationship with Europe.
Obviously I was always opposed to Brexit, obviously I continue to believe it’s been a disaster and wish it had never happened…but it has and now the task is to somehow reassess and re establish a more positive and constructive relationship with our European neighbours which is probably more important now than it’s been at any moment in our lifetimes.

Regards Swale’s comment. I agree with him, you disagree. Up to you to clarify, I’ve got better things to do than check out the claims and counter claims that go on between the two of you…but, if I support him one of you, GP or Tricky will immediately make some dull witted and repetitive ‘rear gunner’ comment so not much point really.

[Andy_Faber]

Regards Swale’s comment. I agree with him, you disagree. Up to you to clarify, I’ve got better things to do than check out the claims and counter claims that go on between the two of you….

…but if you care about being well informed in the discussion you should ‘check out the claims’, your nickname (which I’ve long-stopped using, it’s day is done) is well-deserved as you just seem inclined to believe anything from Swale as Gospel. Both our extremists post a mix of facts, old boll:cks and vitriol and it’s the latter two that cause the major unpleasantness here,

[ramAnag]

…but if you care about being well informed in the discussion you should ‘check out the claims’, your nickname (which I’ve long-stopped using, it’s day is done) is well-deserved as you just seem inclined to believe anything from Swale as Gospel. Both our extremists post a mix of facts, old boll:cks and vitriol and it’s the latter two that cause the major unpleasantness here,

I don’t think that’s true and tbh I don’t think of Swale as being an ‘extremist’. He’s certainly got under your skin and is a huge irritant to both you and GP but as far as politics is concerned I’d describe him as slightly to the left of ‘centre left’.

As far as posting a ‘mix of facts and bollux’ is concerned. Well we all do that from time to time and as regards me being ‘inclined to believe anything from Swale as gospel’…you have a seriously short memory.

[swaledale]

1) I don’t recall responding with ‘dismay’ as you put it…but clearly the numbers have risen exponentially since Brexit…the exact opposite of the Brexiteer’s intention and the reasons for which I’d suggest are intelligently explained by Swale in the post immediately above.

2) Glad we agree…and yes, unsurprisingly, it was.

Except that in 2016 the figures for Asylum claims were 37,465, its just that they didn't come in by boat.

[swaledale]

Swale, inaccuracy and bias. 3 words I'd not normally expect to see in one sentence. Well any more so than TTR, inaccuracy and bias anyway. 2 sides of the same coin.

Really? Please do explain which bits are inaccurate and which bits are biased, I'm always willing to learn you know, rather than have these words thrown at me with no justification for them. Of course like AF none will be forthcoming.

[swaledale]

It's in loads of places if you look for it.
You and the rear gunner never believe anything, unless the BBC and the Guardian say so. As a pair, they would sooner say nothing, than try to explain it. Thats a narrative you love.

Prime Minister Keir Starmer‘s administration has seen 6,858 migrant arrivals since taking office, increasing pressure on the government to find effective solutions. In response, the government scrapped the previous Rwanda deportation scheme and proposed a new Border Security Command aimed at improving border security and reducing dangerous crossings.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/migrant-crisis-more-than-7000-people-cross-channel-since-labour-came-to-power/ar-AA1pEj2B

Considering most of them toss their ID away.
This is a pinch of salt

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53699511

The Centre for Migration Control put the cost to taxpayers of record levels of migrant worklessness at as much as £8.5 billion a year.

Robert Bates, research director at the Centre for Migration Control, said last night: “For all the talk of a fiscal 'black hole', the Labour Government seem to be missing the glaringly obvious fact that mass migration is causing economic pandemonium.

Ah yes GBeebies, that station well known for fact checking, unbiased and real news!. In fact such a reputable station that when challenged on its false news and undoubted biased reporting, claims its and entertainment not a news channel.

Not actually true that I rely on the BBC or the Guardian for news, I do my research and cross check across a number of sources, obviously I discount those that are right wing think tanks and media designed to fool idiots like yourself and whip you up into frothing at the mouth over what is far from a crisis, more failure of the previous government to manage the issue responsibly.

But hey knock yourself out, your posts just reveal a lack of critical thinking and a willingness to swallow the crap fed to you by the stooges of elite billionaires. Mmm now exactly in whose interests do you think they are looking after? Not yours that's for sure!

[swaledale]

1) I was paraphrasing you. My earlier comment compared to the drugs trade where authorities are fighting like Canute against the Aegir

2) We agree for now, not sure you're quite as open as me to reassessment, time will tell

Swales 'explanation' is factually inaccurate/misleading in a number of regards and demonstrates his bias, as does (unsuccessfully it appears, and the numbers surprised me as well as Swale) his attempt to call out TTR's boat arrivals figure. I won't go into detail on where he's wrong but it doesn't take much research

I made no attempt to call out Thickys figures, I merely asked for a source. If your so confident my explanation is factually incorrect, then please provide your verification for this claim, because otherwise, as your so fond of telling me in your usual pompous manner, its just your opinion and counts for diddly squat.

[Andy_Faber]

please provide your verification for this claim.

Regarding ‘safe routes’, HMG’s mid-23 policy paper summarises (I won’t be in ultra bore and delve into the acts) pretty well, and shows that there have been, and continue to be, ‘safe routes’ under many circumstances. My guess is that those travelling ‘illegally’ do so because either they know they don’t qualify (viz Albanians in recent years, Vietnamese currently) or they can’t be bothered with the admin. But there ARE safe routes, and it’s notable that even in the Labour rush to rubbish all things Tory, these routes haven’t been widened, especially to the ‘come one come all’ hopes of the placard wavers

[Trickytreesreds]

So…going from AF’s source - neither the BBC nor the Guardian - the boat crossing figures would appear to be as follows:
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,843
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28, 526
2022 - 45,774
2023 - 29,437
2024 - 20,644

I’m not entirely sure how reliable ‘Migration Watch’ figures are but they do raise at least two questions.
1) What do such figures say about the impact of Brexit’s ‘take back control of our borders’ policy?
2) Given that the majority of the crossings that these desperate people make take place in the theoretically calmer conditions of May to August and therefore have probably peaked for this year…how is Starmer to blame?

P.S. Robert Bates may not be quite as objective as he might like us to believe. Maybe worth checking out him and his Tufton Street connections. The grand sounding ‘Centre for Migration Control’ is just another right wing think tank.

RA, its not Brexit.
Its Europe, slowly but surely tightening, their borders where these "chancers" are concerned. Denmark/ Sweden/Holland/ Germany are all saying no and cutting out the money they have been getting.
That's not to their liking, so they are heading west, to the sofest touch. Currently us.
Because we are so soft, we are accepting double or treble the amount qualifying in Europe. Why? Because they toss their papers away and we have to take their word for it, on where they come from.
The minute we stop putting folks in social housing and paying out freebies, as well as sorting out the black economy. Then it will fall drastically. 80% Single men under 35. In the year to the end of June 2024, he largest number of UK asylum seekers came from Afghanistan - 9,342. Other big countries for applications were Iran, Pakistan, Vietnam, India, and Bangladesh. In 2022, Albanians were the top nationality with more than 17,300 people (including dependants) claiming asylum. Three quarters arrived on small boats. Its wrong.

[Geoff Parkstone]

If they toss their papers away, how do you know where they are from?

[Trickytreesreds]

If they toss their papers away, how do you know where they are from?

You don't. You have work on the pretext of what they say.
Harder for some, a Viernamese isn't going to get away with saying they are Syrian.
But a Pakistani, may be able to pull off claiming to be Afghan.

Either way, its virtually impossible to eject someone without ID and why they toss it away.

That's why no one coming by boat or lorry should even be considered. They may not like it, but back to France you go.

[MadAmster]

Didn't a single hovercraft hold something like 800 passenger? Fill one up, back to France and drop them on the beaches.

[ramAnag]

RA, its not Brexit.
Its Europe, slowly but surely tightening, their borders where these "chancers" are concerned. Denmark/ Sweden/Holland/ Germany are all saying no and cutting out the money they have been getting.
That's not to their liking, so they are heading west, to the sofest touch. Currently us.
Because we are so soft, we are accepting double or treble the amount qualifying in Europe. Why? Because they toss their papers away and we have to take their word for it, on where they come from.
The minute we stop putting folks in social housing and paying out freebies, as well as sorting out the black economy. Then it will fall drastically. 80% Single men under 35. In the year to the end of June 2024, he largest number of UK asylum seekers came from Afghanistan - 9,342. Other big countries for applications were Iran, Pakistan, Vietnam, India, and Bangladesh. In 2022, Albanians were the top nationality with more than 17,300 people (including dependants) claiming asylum. Three quarters arrived on small boats. Its wrong.

My point was that it’s yet another example of a complete Brexit failure. Made it harder and more expensive for ordinary U.K. folk to get around Europe. Made it more complicated to trade with Europe. Compromised security arrangements between ourselves and Europe but look at the figures for arrivals by boat…just look at what has happened here since 2019.

Also, according to the EUAA, Germany, Spain and Italy are the most common European destinations for asylum seekers while worldwide, according to Statista…Iran, Turkey, Germany (again), Pakistan and Uganda make up the top 5 with the UK coming in at 20th.

The migrant crisis is a major issue, I agree, but if it is to be solved it will be via joined up thought and policies, compassion and international cooperation, not bigoted nationalistic nonsense.