Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

Looking at the wording of the conditions I doubt he’s breaking the law but obviously we here don’t know the whole story or the whole of US state law. The ‘raffle’ is open to all, and there is no link to voting. Not That I can see anyway.

It isn’t ‘open to all’. It’s only for voters in the ‘swing states’ who sign Musk’s PAC petition.

[Andy_Faber]

It isn’t ‘open to all’. It’s only for voters in the ‘swing states’ who sign Musk’s PAC petition.

I did specifically say 'state', and no-one's prevented from signing the petition

[ramAnag]

I did specifically say 'state', and no-one's prevented from signing the petition

Post #1948 - today, 12.18pm.
‘The raffle is open to all,’ by Andy_Faber.

It clearly isn’t! At least have the good grace to accept when you are wrong.

[Andy_Faber]

Post #1948 - today, 12.18pm.
‘The raffle is open to all,’ by Andy_Faber.

It clearly isn’t! At least have the good grace to accept when you are wrong.

You're just being silly now rA, back off a bit eh?

[ramAnag]

You're just being silly now rA, back off a bit eh?

Absolutely astonishing reply. Andy…we all make mistakes, you and I included…that’s no big deal. All our opinions are questionable and very often you and I differ. However when you say something which is so demonstrably untrue/mistaken just put your hand up and admit it.

The ‘raffle’ is not open to all (FACT)…and that is the point.

[Andy_Faber]

Absolutely astonishing reply. Andy…we all make mistakes, you and I included…that’s no big deal. All our opinions are questionable and very often you and I differ. However when you say something which is so demonstrably untrue/mistaken just put your hand up and admit it.

The ‘raffle’ is not open to all (FACT)…and that is the point.

You aren't going to win this one rA. I was no less vague about the parameters of the raffle than MA, who introduced the subject, yet it's mine you are nit-picking about. MA and I both rely on a bit of intuition on the part of those who read our posts, when MA wasn't specific about what part of the USA it related to, I knew without taking issue with him/his post that it related to certain states. You could and should have done the same with my follow up post. I wonder why you didn't.

For the sake of other posters, End of discussion (I hope)

[Geoff Parkstone]

Anyone could register, rA regardless of political expectation of voting, unless they have a clause that takes the dosh back if you don't vote the "right way" - but isn't it still a secret vote in USA despite the voting machines used in various states: hence who could find out?

[Geoff Parkstone]

EG I have a friend who joined the labour party in UK as a firm conservative voter, solely to vote against Corbyn

[ramAnag]

Anyone could register, rA regardless of political expectation of voting, unless they have a clause that takes the dosh back if you don't vote the "right way" - but isn't it still a secret vote in USA despite the voting machines used in various states: hence who could find out?

With all due respect, GP - and I’m answering you rather than Andy as this seems completely beyond him - ‘anyone’ cannot register.
There are 50 U.S. states and ‘entry/registration’ is confined to residents of just six of those states…those being Pennsylvania, Georgia, Nevada, Michigan, North Carolina and Arizona which, quite coincidentally of course, happen to be the key ‘swing’ or ‘battleground’ states.

Musk has even declared the aim as being ‘to try to get over a million, maybe two million voters in the battleground states to sign the petition in support of the First and Second Amendment.’

Beyond that, access to the ‘prize’ is only available to those who sign the Musk/Trump petition…so while I partially understand your point it is quite ludicrous to suggest that ‘anyone could register’ or that it is ‘open to all’ when it is self evidently restricted to residents of the ‘swing’ states and beyond that only to those who sign Musk’s PAC petition.

Tell you what, AF. You’ve, rightly imo, put a lot of faith in MA recently and suggested he might act as an arbitrator when your decision is called into question.
This isn’t quite one of those moments but, coincidentally he introduced the topic, so why not put the system to the test?
You have been adamant that Musk’s ‘prizes’ are open to all. I’m saying that they’re not because only residents of the key ‘swing’ states (6/50) are eligible and, beyond that, only those who sign the Musk/Trump PAC petition may enter.

How about letting MA decide? Open to all…or not?

[Andy_Faber]

I'll go against my own request, and repeat just once: For the sake of other posters, End of discussion (I hope)

[ramAnag]

You aren't going to win this one rA. I was no less vague about the parameters of the raffle than MA, who introduced the subject, yet it's mine you are nit-picking about. MA and I both rely on a bit of intuition on the part of those who read our posts, when MA wasn't specific about what part of the USA it related to, I knew without taking issue with him/his post that it related to certain states. You could and should have done the same with my follow up post. I wonder why you didn't.

For the sake of other posters, End of discussion (I hope)

Andy, for goodness sake, MA wrote ‘…and now Musk is giving away $1M, in sort of raffle, every weekend to a Trump voter.
Surely, that must count as bribery and/or unfair influencing of the ballot?’

Those are his exact words. No mention of states, parameters or anything else…just a simple observation with no ‘intuition’ necessary.

You’ve made a mistake in providing the defence of it ‘being open to all’ and misinterpreted the situation. As ever now in such circumstances you seek to close down discussion. Honestly I now understand why Swale sometimes resorts to bad language. Your stubbornness is enough to make a saint swear and Swale is no saint.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I agree that application for the "raffle" is at state level, so you can't get into the game unless youre in specific states. But that is so with most state lottires in USA int it? If you're in Missouri you can't enter the state lottery of Maine??

Beyond that anyone can surely sign up to the Tusk requirements and be eligible for the lottery without having to prove which way the voted which would violate one amendment or another??

[ramAnag]

I agree that application for the "raffle" is at state level, so you can't get into the game unless youre in specific states. But that is so with most state lottires in USA int it? If you're in Missouri you can't enter the state lottery of Maine??

Beyond that anyone can surely sign up to the Tusk requirements and be eligible for the lottery without having to prove which way the voted which would violate one amendment or another??

Of course you’re right about ‘State lotteries’ but this isn’t a State lottery is it? It’s a politically motivated ‘lottery’ that is only open to registered voters in selected ‘swing states’ which I incorrectly numbered as 6 earlier. Actually there are 7/50 such states as I forgot Wisconsin…apologies for that.

In addition Musk is now giving voters in PA $100 for signing his petition plus a further $100 for any referred signatories. The amount elsewhere appears to be $47. Is that okay too?

Would you have been happy if either the Tories or Labour had been offering people money to win their support and incentivise them to vote accordingly in the ‘Red Wall’ seats at the last election? I doubt it…and I wouldn’t either.

[SithHappens]

It's more like someone like Lord Alli offering an incentive to voters, but irrespective of that it's not right in my opinion, but it's not exactly a surprise.

Musk seems set in Trump being president. Hopefully he can put him on a one way trip to Mars.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Of course you’re right about ‘State lotteries’ but this isn’t a State lottery is it? It’s a politically motivated ‘lottery’ that is only open to registered voters in selected ‘swing states’ which I incorrectly numbered as 6 earlier. Actually there are 7/50 such states as I forgot Wisconsin…apologies for that.

In addition Musk is now giving voters in PA $100 for signing his petition plus a further $100 for any referred signatories. The amount elsewhere appears to be $47. Is that okay too?

Would you have been happy if either the Tories or Labour had been offering people money to win their support and incentivise them to vote accordingly in the ‘Red Wall’ seats at the last election? I doubt it…and I wouldn’t either.

No I wouldn't be happy for what is clearly buying votes in this country or in USA for that matter - but USA do have a far dodgier history of voting malpractice. Doesn't make it right but a little more predictable perhaps. Trump's accusations vs Dominion voting machines may have been unproven but no smoke without fire?